The QBS Express

QBS_Ep38
===

Welcome to QBS Express
---

Scott Heidner: [00:00:00] Welcome listeners to the QBS Express, the ACEC Kansas podcast. I'm your host, Executive Director Scott Heidner, and we have a super cool story to tell today. It's always more fun to tell the success stories and this is a big one. I am recording today in beautiful De Soto, Kansas, and we're here with Mike Brungardt, City Administrator, and Joe Johnson, the Public Works Director and City Engineer.

Names that are probably even familiar to a lot of our ACEC Kansas members. But we are here today. I'll get into what we're hoping to accomplish or, or why we're here a little bit more in a minute. But we're, we're gonna try to unpack today a pretty sustained success story and what that would mean to our [00:01:00] engineer members what they can take away from it and learn and, and maybe even use moving forward in their own lives.

But before we get too far into that, gentlemen, can I ask you to tell our listeners a little bit about yourselves and the journey that brought you to the leadership positions you have at De Soto today? How'd you get here? Joe, you wanna go first?

Meet Joe Johnson
---

Joe Johnson: So, yep, no, I'll go first. I've, I've been in the public side for over 30 years.

So started off as a petroleum engineer. That didn't go all that well with the oil market. Went back and got a civil degree. Came out in 1987, worked for the city of Overland Park for about nine years, 21 years for the city of Leawood, Kansas. Retired, kinda did a little private side and then back in 2023, I think came to the city of De Soto.

They had their public works director moved on and, given the fact of what all is going on here kind of my view, what a great way to uh, kinda finish my, my, my years-

working and to be involved with, with the growth of De Soto and just all the [00:02:00] infrastructure projects that we're gonna go on due to the, the investment with Panasonic and the continued growth that, that the city will see with our industrial development.

Scott Heidner: Like the NFL free agent that's had a great career but never had a Super Bowl, and so your last contract-

Joe Johnson: Absolutely. ...

Scott Heidner: not about maxing out the money on the market.

Joe Johnson: Yeah, yeah.

Scott Heidner: It's like, "Let's go somewhere and get a ring."

Joe Johnson: Being on the public side- ... and, and helping the community grow.

Scott Heidner: That's awesome.

Well, I've- Being from Leawood, you probably had a, a pretty front row seat to what had taken place before you got here as well, and-

Yeah. That's cool. Mike, what about you?

Meet Mike Brungardt
---

Mike Brungardt: Well, yeah Scott, thanks for having us. We, appreciate the opportunity and fun to talk about what we've done here. Yeah, I, I tell everybody that I work for Joe.

My main goal on a daily basis is really to make sure that Joe stays happy and engaged- ... and excited about what he's doing so that this last segment of his career doesn't end next year or five years from now. So

Scott Heidner: Can I say before you go on, you're already gonna be a heroic figure to our membership-

[00:03:00] because if you think about who the ACEC membership is-

Mike Brungardt: Yes

Scott Heidner: ... in their minds, I'm sure in a perfect world, city administrators would always just work at the pleasure of the public works director.

Mike Brungardt: Well, Scott, in fairness, I wor- also work for the communications department-

Scott Heidner: Oh, okay, okay

Mike Brungardt: ... and the planning department and the finance department.

Um, I'm here but to serve all of them and prop them up uh, every day, and you know, we, we have great people all around. A small staff, engaged staff. We're growing, you know, like, like everything, but none of this would've been possible without really good people working for you.

So Joe's the best example of that and one of the great examples. We have others, so. Again, appreciate the opportunity to be here and tell the story a little bit. Yeah, so I graduated... I'm actually a civil engineer by trade. Graduated from KU in '94. Spent some time in the private side, consultant side there in Lawrence.

Then in 2000 got the opportunity to come start working for the city of De Soto as the city engineer. It was [00:04:00] a different, you know, different time, different community then. A town of about 5,500 at the time, and a bedroom, very much a bedroom community and, you know, going through some growth, moderate growth.

Some housing growth was taking place. You know, we got a Sonic restaurant there in the early 2000s. That was a pretty big deal, and you know, we worked through trying to get a grocery store. We hadn't had a grocery store in a while, and so those are some, some, some wins and then, you know, kind of building out, oh, at the time fiber infrastructure.

Scott Heidner: Oh, yeah.

Mike Brungardt: You know, we had a good por-portion- Yeah ... of the town that didn't have fiber and struggled with internet access, and looking back now, it's kinda, it's amazing that we had those issues you know, when you look at what, what's going on now, so.

Scott Heidner: And did...

Maybe you just said it and I missed it, but what year did you come here?

Mike Brungardt: 2000.

Scott Heidner: 2000.

Mike Brungardt: Yeah. Okay. So I've been here 26 years.

So I was a city engineer until 2016, when I became city administrator. So I have that, you know, that public works, that engineering background and appreciation for that, and, and I think the community in general, you know, understands the benefit of you know, maintaining infrastructure.

You know, [00:05:00] it's, it's largely a blue, blue-collar type community. It kind of was, was the root of it there. So yeah, became administrator in 2016, and so, you know, my world changed at that point. You know, usually when you change careers, you have to kinda move locations.

Joe Johnson: Mm-hmm.

Mike Brungardt: My career's kinda changed several times, and I didn't have to move anywhere, so city engineer and then city administrator, that's a pretty big career change.

Then I became somewhat of a health director during COVID. You know, the w- everybody's kinda life changed there, so, so that was another kinda phase of my career. And then lastly, you know, with this opportunity of large scale economic development that's represented by the Astra Enterprise Park now, we'll get into a little bit later it's kind of the, the, the latest phase-

Scott Heidner: Mm-hmm

Mike Brungardt: is a lot of pursuing economic development. Good, the good, the correct economic development, and positioning ourselves from an infrastructure and planning and community engagement and public relations perspective to be able to take advantage of that, so.

De Soto Growth Metrics
---

Scott Heidner: So before we get... I wanna get in now to [00:06:00] the success story itself and how it happened, but before we do, do you have...

And I probably should've given you a heads-up on this question beforehand, but- Just as context for the listeners, do you have some data points about the growth you've had? I mean, you mentioned when you came here it was a town of 5,500-

Mike Brungardt: Right ...

Scott Heidner: versus it's what today?

Mike Brungardt: Well, it, it really, the latest census, only 7,000.

Scott Heidner: But that's still-

Mike Brungardt: So the popula- Yeah, I mean, that's,

that's-

Scott Heidner: That's a lot of growth ...

Mike Brungardt: that's a lot, but that's over 26

years.

Scott Heidner: But are there other things, are there other metrics that are kinda clean and easy to grab that show what's taken place over the last few years, or not so

much?

Mike Brungardt: Yeah. It is , and we're starting to see them.

Revenues are one thing. Just like if you just look at sales tax you know, the, the, the sales ta- the, it, the city sales tax has been, you know, probably historically had been 10 to 15% of our annual budget. Now it represents almost half.

Scott Heidner: Wow.

Mike Brungardt: You know, it's, it's, it's it's doubled in the last, you know, since Panasonic started really building their $4 billion facility the sales tax [00:07:00] has grown like that.

And you can look at franchise fees from electric usage are s- are sorta the same way. And that's part of the story we tell about how the pursuit of good economic development can really equate to quality of life benefits for the... And that's why you do it.

Scott Heidner: Yeah.

Mike Brungardt: Right? You don't just do it because it's fun.

It is fun. You don't just do it to do big things and have people want to come and do podcasts with you. But you do it, you do it because you know that it's gonna really mean meaningful quality of life benefits for the, for the, not just our community now, right? This is a little bit bigger. So- Yeah

You know, to be in a position of, you know, a city administrator of a little town of 6,000 people it might seem hyperbolic, but to feel sort of a an obligation to make sure that these projects are successful and they do result in the, in the benefits that they're promised, not just for De Soto and Johnson County and northeast Kansas, but, you know, you're, you're part of a bigger sort of wave of prosperity, you know, [00:08:00] if, if you're an optimist.

A wave of prosperity that you can see that's on the horizon with not just reassuring of, of manufacturing that happened after COVID and not just locally here in our, here in our own town, but, you know, the coming coming wave. And I know we've the third rail here of the data centers but the fact is there's a, just a tremendous amount of economic prosperity that's possible with that.

And you do it with your eyes wide open and you, you wanna be careful and deliberate about it. You wanna get the right partners involved. You wanna do it the correct way. But to ignore it is, is at your peril. You know, there's, there's two sides of that, so you just feel an obligation to be prepared for-

Scott Heidner: Yeah

Mike Brungardt: capitalizing on those things.

Scott Heidner: We'll put a pin in that for a moment 'cause I think we're gonna come back to that question a couple times throughout the podcast, which is, you know, how do you manage this to make sure you're bringing in the right partners and that kind of thing.

Mike Brungardt: Right.

Scott Heidner: But before we do, one of the things when I talk to you guys that always I appreciate about you guys very much, but [00:09:00] you are very, very, very quick to deflect the success.

"Well, you know, we were blessed with good partners, and we were in a good situation where people were incentivized, you know, in line with us and whatever," which is awesome.

Ammunition Plant Origins
---

Scott Heidner: But one of the things that you Are very conscientious about recognizing as a part of this that, that you can't take credit for, and I don't wanna spend a ton of time on it, but let's educate the listeners at least a little bit, and that is the history of the land that you've got available, the old ammunition plant-

Mike Brungardt: Sure

Scott Heidner: and the critical role it played. I don't think we need to get very far down that rabbit hole, but would you give our listeners at least the Reader's Digest background on all that?

Mike Brungardt: Yeah. Well, there's, there's so many story arcs that you can pl- they just write themselves- ... really about, about the, the history of the town and, and its, interaction with that facility.

So for those that don't know, aren't, familiar with the region, so De Soto sits in western Johnson County. And, you know, it was a town of about 700 in the 1940s. And the Army with the uh, World War II effort [00:10:00] going on, decided that they needed a large scale ammunition facility in the central United States, and they selected about 9,000 acres in western Johnson County for the purposes of building munitions for the World War II effort.

And they compiled 9,000 acres, and the reason the Army picked it was because it was good, flat, industrial land to build big things on. It had good access to the Kansas River for uh, water resources. Good central location in the middle of the country, you know, for transportation and distribution logistics, and it was, had proximity to the Kansas City area with a big workforce.

So the Army amassed all that, built all that, you know, in the 1940s. During construction, there was 30,000 people working on construction.

Scott Heidner: Wow.

Mike Brungardt: And then during production of munitions during World War II and the Korean and Vietnamese conflicts, there was about 10,000 workers uh, army and civilian workers out there.

Now, we didn't call it this at the time, but it, it really was advanced manufacturing what they were doing. And so during those times, De Soto obviously grew, you know, from [00:11:00] the 700 or so when the Army came in to 1,500 or 2,000. It grew over those times. But when those jobs were available, we had multiple grocery stores in town.

There were restaurants. There was a hardware store. Folks were building houses. Just about anybody that, that's been in town for a couple generations has a relative that used to work out there. They have stories about working out there. And they remember a time when that, that advanced manufacturing facility brought the type of blue collar, middle class working job opportunities that you don't see much anymore.

You know, in the last couple generations they've kind of been bled out of the economy here. So there's this history of De Soto. Now, it was on the edge of De Soto and before K10, old K10 came through town. Now new K10 kinda goes on the south edge of town It was far enough away not to impact your daily life, but there was employment there.

And so we remember the prosperity that that brought. And so now, you know, it's still 9,000 acres out there. All the conditions that [00:12:00] the Army liked it, about it are still there. Still in the middle of the country, still nice flat land to develop, utility access, access to the labor market. And so we've had this vision, you know, for the last 20 years at least, that when the facility got restored environmentally to bring back to productive use, we could, we could attract those types of advanced manufacturing jobs that the people, the people remember here.

It's a, it was a Norman Rockwell painting, right? So we think there's a real opportunity to bring that back and bring back that type of prosperity that that we saw there.

Scott Heidner: So that's really one component that as you've said a couple times to me, you know, I, we can't take credit for that. You know, that was a-

Mike Brungardt: Correct.

Correct. Yeah

Scott Heidner: ... that was an inherited thing. But I think a lot of what has come since then, certainly there is a lot of credit to be, to be given. A lot of that was intentional, which maybe leads me to my next question.

Remediation to Redevelopment
---

Scott Heidner: Was there a moment... So you've had a, a variety of projects, and again, Panasonic is the one that grabs the headlines, but you've got the data center, you've had all kinds of [00:13:00] other things coalesce here. Was there a watershed moment years ago where somebody said, "We can position DeSoto for that kind of growth, and the way to do it is X, Y, and Z," and that really set you up for it?

Or was it really more scattershot, like you were just doing business as usual, and the first one came, and you grew a little, and you kind of evolved or, or was there a, a vision moment where-

Mike Brungardt: No, I, I think, I think kind of in the blood of the community, there's always been a recognition that that munition plant had the potential one day to be brought back into active use.

In the early 2000s, there was a pr- a proposal going around for a theme park, Wonderful World of Oz theme park.

Scott Heidner: I remember that, yeah.

Mike Brungardt: And you might remember. That was gonna be... It's two- three or 400 acres of it. So, you know, that wasn't necessarily the vision. You know, 20 years after that, it wasn't necessarily the vision, but there was a [00:14:00] recognition of that.

You know, the, the problem was, for good or bad, during the time the Army had it and was in operations, there was some contamination that happened. You know, the munitions, explosives munitions and, and asbestos and leads, and some serious environmental remediation had to, had to take place.

And in 2004 the Army struck a deal with the local development firm to take over, to take ownership of the property and oversee the environmental remediation and turn the property back for productive use. And 18 years, it only took 18 years. You know? And so-

Scott Heidner: Blink, blink of an eye.

Mike Brungardt: Yeah. during that 18 years, we developed a relationship with that ownership group.

We were actually operating the water treatment facility that the Army built back in the '40s. The city started operating that in the early 2000s. So because we were operating that facility in the middle of the whole former ammunition plant, we developed a relationship with, with the new owners. And as the property became closer to full [00:15:00] environmental remediation, we realized that that was gonna happen from the north to the south, the north being closest to the city.

So in the early 2000s or I'm sorry, in the early 2020s, our council had recognized that and saw the benefit of partnering with, with the owner, a- annexing the property, forming a tax increment financing district an economic incentive district that is the poster child for a TIF district.

The legislative intent of a TIF district is to clean up blighted property, poster child for that. So we annexed the whole 9,000 acres and formed that district in, you know, in the early 2020s, and began the process of, seriously engaging in the business of economic development and attracting the type of developments and developers and companies who would benefit our community.

You know, six years ago, the distribution warehouse thing was just really hot, so we really figured it would be a lot of that. But we really hoped that we'd get, you know, food [00:16:00] manufacturers or some other sort of cleaner sort of manufacturing uses in there. And when Panasonic came along, it's like hitting the grand slam, you know, on the first pitch-

Scott Heidner: Yeah

Mike Brungardt: is, is kind of what that was. And, and we see it as a, a fantastic anchor tenant for the rest.

Scott Heidner: So you already answered one of the questions I was going to ask, which is was it difficult to convince people to make some of the investments that were required or the commitments or whatever? And I really like what you said earlier.

You said it's really just kind of in the DNA of this community with its history-

Mike Brungardt: Yeah ...

Scott Heidner: and the ammunition plant and whatever. I think that's pretty telling. 'Cause the purpose of this podcast is we hope our ACEC member listeners are kind of they're at least taking mental notes on how this might impact them and, and so having a supportive community, obviously a big part of that.

Stakeholders and Oversight
---

Scott Heidner: What stakeholder groups would you say were instrumental in supporting a lot of this? And conversely, [00:17:00] what interest groups had concerns that you needed to partner with them to, to overcome, whether that's- You know, aesthetic or environmental concerns or, or tax issues-

Mike Brungardt: Yeah

Scott Heidner: ... whatever. Who-

Mike Brungardt: Yeah ...

Scott Heidner: which stakeholder groups do you find really were helpful in pulling the wagon, and which groups required some extra communication to-

Mike Brungardt: Yeah, I think, I think the biggest thing...

You know, I started in 2000, and, and right about the time The Wonderful World of Oz was, was proposed. But then nothing happened out there for 15 years, and the reason is 'cause they were cleaning and doing the environmental remediation. It's widely recognized that the place was pretty contaminated.

I mean, it was bad stuff. And there were concerns about that, very legitimate concerns about making sure that that got overseen and got funded and, and was, was done in a way that wouldn't impact future generations. And so it's almost... You know, it was during this 15 years when we weren't doing [00:18:00] podcasts, we weren't making headlines.

Nothing wa- I mean, not nothing was going on, but it was really during that time that the, the ownership group, SRL, Sunflower Redevelopment Group, is- was the owner of the, what, what is now Aster Enterprise Park. They were able to engage with the Corps of Engineers and the Kansas Department of Health and Environment over multiple administrations at the state, multiple administrations at the federal level.

You know, our, our federal representatives were instrumental in making sure that the Department of Defense kept the money flowing for the remediation. There were lawsuits involved there, but they kept at it. And so during that time, there was a restoration advisory board that would meet of local interested parties, citizens and council members and myself for a time, just to oversee and to understand what was going on.

This has been a 20-year effort on the part of KDHE and all those involved. And if you saw the sort of documentation and tracking, and it's all part of a federal RCRA [00:19:00] permit process, just an enormous amount of work, all behind the scenes, all, you know, with, with funding streams that weren't being backed up by revenue streams.

it really was, I mean, on the part of that group that engaged with that, very important work. And the public communications associated with that, you know, there's, the history of, of this, there's a recognition that there's a lot of work to be done and a lot of work did get done.

So that was one group.

Scott Heidner: Mm-hmm.

Mike Brungardt: Another, another thing about the infrastructure, and I mentioned that we started operating this water treatment plant in the early 2000s. When the Army came in and, and did the facility, they were, they were building munitions. They needed a lot of water to do that work, and they also needed a tremendous amount of fire suppression capabilities.

They obtained very senior water rights on the Kansas River in large quantities. They also established a utility corridor between the, the Enterprise Park and the river to bring that utility up the [00:20:00] corridor. And so that was an asset that was tied to the property itself, this water asset that the community saw.

We saw that that could be put back to use one day if the water rights were done right and, you know. And so it was kind of the, the, group that understood that water, that water right, that water asset was an economic development asset, not only for the community, but also for the redevelopment of the property.

So there was a whole group of infrastructure experts and water rights ex- experts that were, that were involved with that as well, so. And then, you know, just more recently, as we've annexed the thing and, and, and understood, you know, what the economic development part was, you know, our the partners at the Chamber of Commerce and EDC, in the city.

You know, a, a group of those folks that understood the benefit of, of promoting things like that and just remained engaged in working with state and local partners and, and national site selection consultants, that sort of thing, to build up that infrastructure [00:21:00] to put us in a position when a company like Panasonic came that we at least had some infrastructure that could answer some questions and respond to the opportunity.

Community Concerns
---

Scott Heidner: And on the flip side of that, do you have any particular issues or constituent groups that had real concerns that you were able to partner with to work your way through? And again, what I'm thinking is if, if I'm an ACEC listener out there and I'm envisioning maybe a, a similar journey in another community-

what, what do you en- ... what should you anticipate?

Mike Brungardt: Yeah, I, I think, The, the thing for DeSoto to keep in mind you know, Panasonic and, you know, the growth that's happening is, is beneficial. I think most, most people understand that. And these folks that have been in the community for generations, you know, I think, like I say, it's kind of in the blood a little bit.

But there is a l- you know, about a third of the population that moved to DeSoto from other parts of more busy areas of the metro area to kinda get away from all that. And they [00:22:00] didn't come out here because they thought great things could happen at the Astra. They came out here 'cause it's, there's no, well, no noise in the traffic.

So, you know, it, it's, it's engaging with those folks, and I'm not saying that all of them are just completely against it.

Scott Heidner: Mm-hmm. Sure.

Mike Brungardt: But it, the, it is, you know, they're, they're part of the constituency that you need to remain engaged with and listen to. And, what you, you have to do is make sure that what growth does happen, what big stuff or little stuff, whatever, that it, that it is truly beneficial for, for everybody.

So just, just the recognition , despite the home run, you know, the, the, the grand slam of the first pitch or all the winnings or all the press clippings, you have to keep in mind that there's a segment of the population, this is the last thing they want. Last thing they want.

Scott Heidner: There are always concerns.

Mike Brungardt: Sure.

Yeah.

Scott Heidner: And always concerned constituents.

Mike Brungardt: Right.

Yeah.

Scott Heidner: Uh,

Building a Comms Team
---

Scott Heidner: Did you have to- Do anything specific in terms of a communications plan to keep the stakeholders in- informed and on board or-

Mike Brungardt: Oh, yeah ...

Scott Heidner: [00:23:00] Do you think that really just occurred within your normal-

Mike Brungardt: No.

Scott Heidner: Okay.

Mike Brungardt: It

did not just occur, no.

That, that sort of stuff does not just occur.

Scott Heidner: Right.

Mike Brungardt: You know, it was 10 years ago when I started as the city administrator, I ran the webpage. I ran the Facebook page. I mean, I was the social media person.

Scott Heidner: Oh, for heaven sakes.

Mike Brungardt: I was horrible at it. I was terrible. I was trying to be funny.

I wasn't funny. I was trying to, I just still-

Joe Johnson: An engineer doing social media.

Mike Brungardt: Yeah. I'd, I'd just as soon loo k at my shoes all day. I'm not good at that sort of thing.

Scott Heidner: Can I tell you uh, totally interrupting your answer here. Yeah. I'll, I'll buy you some more time to think about your answer. We have a, a leadership program, and at the end I...

They have a graduation ceremony, and m- most of it is very laudatory. We're celebrating graduation. But I've got a email from a thousand years ago- ... that it's, you might be an engineer if, and it's kind of a spin-off the old Jeff Foxworthy thing. And you might be an engineer if this, you know, if you can't write unless the paper has both horizontal and vertical [00:24:00] lines-

or whatever. But my favorite one is you might be an engineer if you think when people around you yawn, it's because they didn't get enough sleep last night.

Mike Brungardt: That's a good one.

Scott Heidner: When you joked about the, an engineer being in charge of communication. Anyway, I, I derailed your answer.

Mike Brungardt: Yeah, yeah.

Engineers are, yeah, they're not, they're not the entertainment.

Scott Heidner: Right. I totally derailed your answer though.

Mike Brungardt: Well, yeah. That was a- I was saying, I guess, you know, that was sort of the baseline. That's where we were- ... in, in the public communications arena when we, when we knew. So w- we knew if we were gonna do a big thing, I, that I was gonna need help with this.

And so we did staff up, you know. We have an onboard communications director, just l- another one like Joe. I'm just making sure every day that I support her and she keeps happy and engaged doing what she does 'cause I don't know what we'd do without her. Whitney is her name. And then we did hire, when Panasonic announced, we did hire a consultant to help us with the, the media relations more-

because they had [00:25:00] kind of the relationships already. They knew the news anchors and so, so we kind of have that team in place, and we since added a- an events coordinator and another communications per-... So we kinda have, we have a, a pretty robust communication staff now that helps us with with these things, you know, not just the telling of the story of the big thing, but the engagement of the community-

Scott Heidner: Yeah

Mike Brungardt: the getting the two-way feedback.

Scott Heidner: And they were a big part, not just today as you're managing post-success, but they were a big part of the pre-success-

Mike Brungardt: Oh, yeah

Scott Heidner: ... to make sure-

Mike Brungardt: Yeah ...

Scott Heidner: we're-

Mike Brungardt: It was absolutely-

Scott Heidner: ... we're being good communicators to all the stakeholder groups and-

Mike Brungardt: Yeah. So we quickly formed a plan that would kinda work us through the, you know, there's a, there's an announcement, and then we're gonna need a community engagement.

We need a two-way communication. So there's a public survey, you know, that goes out every couple years. We do flashpoint surveys. You know, it's online, you know, quick, quick prep surveys to get feedback. We got a newsletter. We have an e-newsletter. We, we just, just the communications in general.

And that was kind of [00:26:00] planned. There was a multi-year plan that sorta went into that. And we're just, just extends out each day. Yeah.

How Deals Take Shape
---

Scott Heidner: Well, and that, yet again, is a bit of a segue into my next question, but I was gonna ask you, what kind of timeline are you looking at from the beginning uh, and I'm sure every project is different and has its own story to tell, but from that first day when either you reach out to somebody or somebody reaches out to you about an idea, the genesis moment-

from there to we've got ink on a document, this is really gonna happen, folks are committed how long have you found that, that timeline to typically last?

Mike Brungardt: It's always longer than you think.

Scott Heidner: I bet that's right.

Mike Brungardt: It's always longer. Yeah. And it really depends on the size of the project. You know, we, we have everything from an individual has a, a vacant lot that they might wanna put a duplex on and they're wondering how to get connected.

That, we, you know, that's the milquetoast sort of stuff, to, to $4 billion lithium ion battery f- facility. So on the bigger, on the bigger ones [00:27:00] it's years. You know? You, it kinda generally starts with either the Kansas City area has a development, KCADC development,

Scott Heidner: Mm-hmm

Mike Brungardt: ... economic development organization.

Scott Heidner: We've actually had Tim Cowden as a guest-

as a guest on this podcast ...

Mike Brungardt: Tim's amazing. I wanna listen to that. I, yeah-

Scott Heidner: You can go-

Mike Brungardt: ... I have not heard that.

Scott Heidner: Yeah, you can go

check it out.

Mike Brungardt: Tim's amazing 'cause he loves me.

So

for whatever reason. He loves Joe, too. Uh. Yeah. Yeah, no, Tim. That, that's the that's top-notch organization right there.

Yeah, he's a- They are-

Scott Heidner: He's a treasure ...

Mike Brungardt: they're the New York Yankees-

Scott Heidner: And so are they

Mike Brungardt: ... or the, the Dodgers of, of that. So it might start with them or it also might start with the Kansas Department of Commerce. But sometimes it's a national site selection consultant that says, "We have a manufacturer that needs a couple hundred acres of land," and might be, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars of investment, and they might need up to 1,000 jobs, where in the nation can we, can we find that?

This is the sort of, we're not, you know, we don't take credit for this, but we're almost shortlisted on every single one of those by default, just [00:28:00] because of the things I've talked about before. But it usually starts with hey, submit if you have a, if you have a site that you're, you know, you wanna submit, that meets these criteria, submit.

So that's round one. Round two comes and there's a lot more ...

Competing for Projects
---

Scott Heidner: Can I interrupt you just to ask the question, so that paints a picture, so it is usually you competing with other entities for the business versus the businesses coming to you saying, "De Soto is the place."

Mike Brungardt: On the big scale, on the big scale it is al- you're always competing with- a c- a, a state, neighboring community, maybe another country. It is always like that. Some of the smaller stuff, you know, if a convenience store XYZ's done their market analysis and they say De Soto is where they wanna be, it's not like that.

But very much it's competitive.

Momentum and Capacity
---

Scott Heidner: Do you find does each success- make the next success a little more likely A, because you're becoming more experienced and your staff is... That's one more process they've gone [00:29:00] through, and the community is warming up to it, and et cetera, et cetera. So do you find that synergy builds on itself and makes the next success a little more likely than the one before?

Or is each adventure so unique that it's almost like you're cutting from whole cloth every

time?

Mike Brungardt: It's, it's kinda... it's, it's kind of a new, a new thing each time. Now, the, the process, you know, there's interest. You know, I, I, I think, you know, they're... We're on the map now. And so that kinda gets us over a hurdle.

We have relationships now that we never had before. You know, we know the people at Department of Commerce by first name, first name basis, Tim Cow- You know, like, we have those relationships built up. So in that way it's, it's easier, but I don't know that just because Panasonic is here or just because Merck Animal Health is doing a billion dollar expansion to their facility in De Soto that, you know, company that makes widgets is necessarily gonna s- That's the tripping point, so.

Joe Johnson: Yeah, I probably would add to that. Probably [00:30:00] what helps a little bit is we, with each one of these big developments, the infrastructure that goes along with it not only handles the new development, but there's excess capacity.

So as these developments come in, it does create a little bit extra excess capacity.

Like whenever Evergy comes in for Panasonic, there's a little bit of extra. We've got sewer, we've got water. So with the next one, it does help, I think, a little bit that we have our facilities closer-

Shovel Ready Sites
---

Scott Heidner: Yeah ...

Joe Johnson: to them, and so it's easy to be able to extend to, to accommodate them.

Scott Heidner: You always hear, it's a bit of an overused and misused term sometimes, but you always hear the whole thing, do you have a shovel-ready site?

Joe Johnson: Yeah. And

that's, and that's

what they're looking for.

Scott Heidner: And having, having those infra- those utilities and other infrastructure pieces already done-

Joe Johnson: Yep ...

Scott Heidner: does allow you to, I'm sure- promote that as a more closer to shovel-ready,

so.

Joe Johnson: Yeah. Or the public improvements would have to be done or minimal because someone's already helped get it halfway there.

Scott Heidner: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Infrastructure Overview
---

Scott Heidner: Well, speaking of that yet again, you guys It's like you're professionals at this. Everything I wanna ask, you're segueing into without without even needing a cue. [00:31:00] So our listeners, at the end of the day they are business folks, which is why we've been talking so much about the eco devo portion of this and how you manage that.

But by God, they're also designers, and so let's talk infrastructure. As part of all of this, obviously the infrastructure needs had to have been enormous. Somebody walk me through the 30,000-foot level of all that was required for the recent successes you've compiled from an infrastructure front.

And then after you've summarized it briefly, let's get into what did that mean? What challenges did you face? How was it funded? Et cetera, et cetera. But for the moment, just give us a bit of a rundown of all the things you've had to do, transportation, water, and energy.

Mike Brungardt: Why don't I do the 30,000- and then let, let you, Joe, jump in.

Panasonic Funding Catalyst
---

Mike Brungardt: Well, when I, when I made the analogy of a grand slam on the first pitch of a ballgame, Pan- that's really what Panasonic was. You know, I talked about, you know, the recognition [00:32:00] of economic development of the old army ammunition plant was rebranded Astra Enterprise Park We knew that that's a possibility and that the infrastructure-- the army had infrastructure out there, so that was also a possibility.

But all that stuff was built in the '40s, right? We knew it, it needed to be redone. So we had plans. We annexed the whole thing. We knew what needed to be done. But we didn't really have any sort of direct funding mechanism to make it happen. So when Panasonic came calling, we were able to, to show a picture of readiness from a community standpoint that we, you know, we're ready to engage with the, the deep pool of engineering, architecture, design, construction that exist in the Kansas City markets.

Another, another advantage we have. Ready to engage them, alternative deliveries to bring these things to bear, but we need some money to do it. And the grand slam that was hit was that Panasonic said, "Yes, we want this site for a, a number of reasons that we've already talked about, and we're willing to [00:33:00] facilitate the infrastructure improvements that are gonna be needed for our own benefit, but also for the benefit of the community at large."

We hit a home run with, with the infrastructure stuff, but also the corporate partner that Panasonic is. They really wanna be assets to the community, and they are in every way. They were willing to take the, the revenues that they were gonna get from the tax incentive and put those back to public infrastructure.

And so that's what they did. Essentially, they were really the catalyst to extend the basic infrastructure to Astra Enterprise Park that we needed to take the next step Joe was talking about the next time, "Hey, now it is shovel-ready." Wasn't shovel-ready then with Panasonic, and the, timelines were incredibly tight.

We also had partners, you know, this-- that sort of thing. You know, the governor's office put a big importance on it. It was the biggest economic development project ever in the history of the state. You know, there was momentum from a regional standpoint with not only the governor's office, but the KDOT and KDHE, the regulatory sort of [00:34:00] agencies.

KDOT invested in the road transportation network. Johnson County invested in the fire station and also contributed to the road distribution network. And so that was kind of the framework where the answer is yes, now let's figure out how to get it done. And we didn't have to worry about really the funding part of it Of course we worry about it, but it was, it was in place early on.

So that allowed us to give the whole s- project to Joe and just go and, and make it all happen. So- Joe, you can talk about the specifics about what was done.

Scope and Fire Station
---

Scott Heidner: Just a editorial note, but it is interesting. It gives you a sense of the scope of the project, I suppose. As I sat here, you know, I was anticipating you would talk about transportation needs.

You have to have access for the workers and the construction, whatever. Figured you would talk about water, 'cause any place that big is gonna use water, and it's gonna need power. But you talked about Johnson County, I think, helped with building the fire station.

[00:35:00] It is an amazing testimonial to the size of a project when an individual project- requires its own fire station.

That is a, that is a fairly powerful, singular anecdote to show-

Mike Brungardt: It is. You know-

Scott Heidner: ... the scope of the-

Mike Brungardt: Yeah, when you start talking the billions of dollars, that, that's-

Scott Heidner: Right

Mike Brungardt: ... sort of what that means. But also, lithium ion production, battery production's pretty- sensitive in that area.

Scott Heidner: Well, Joe, what about into the specifics, And, you know, I think our members would be interested in, in the actual data of the specifics, how many miles of this or-

Joe Johnson: Yeah

Scott Heidner: ... water pressure, whatever, whatever. But also talk to us about how you navigated through that. You know, I jotted down a few things that I just wondered.

I kind of assumed at some point you had to manage

schedule. Mike, you already mentioned schedule earlier. I'm sure there was a lot of need for speed at times on this. You know, the need to make sure that your elected officials, both local, state, and [00:36:00] federal, are, are at peace with this and, and not doing anything to slow things down.

You know, the adaptations you had to make in the process. We, designed this in anticipation of whatever, and then it changed. So tell us a little bit about the infrastructure itself, but also your journey in getting it built and what you had to navigate and, and the challenges you had.

Joe Johnson: Yeah.

245 Million Buildout
---

Joe Johnson: You know, so guess I've been on the public side for over 30 years, and done a lot of large projects, but not to this extent. So you know, what Mike said about Panasonic, we had $245 million worth of public improvements. So a new eight-million gallon water plant, expanded wastewater plant $40 million worth of sewer lines and a lift station a new water tower roadway, and then the fire station.

So all this happened between 2022 and the end of last year. That's the timeframe that all this started. Took KDOT two years to design and build four lanes of divided roadway to serve Panasonic as they were building their plant. And most of the construction, design [00:37:00] construction that went on that were purely city projects that we were a part of were all accelerated design.

So either progressive design build or CMA at-risk. And, and to be honest, with the, had we done it the traditional way, we never would have met the timeline. From, from the middle of 2022, I think July '22, I think-

the agreement with Panasonic is they're gonna start, from there till the end of 2024 is kind of our timeline that we had to have the roadway, a water plant, and a wastewater plant able to serve Panasonic, along with the fire station and a water tower.

So, little bit of baptism by fire in, in having to deal with, all these projects that, that were on an accelerated schedule.

Fast Track Delivery
---

Joe Johnson: Lots of meetings. And, and I think the one thing, and, and Mike talked about it, you know, the communication. One of the things I thought helped really well that our communication department did, with all the infrastructure projects going on, there was a weekly update on where the projects were at, what was going on, so that not only the council but the citizens could see what's going on, where we're at.[00:38:00]

And this included utilities. We had Evergy doing a lot of work to bring power to the site. So they were just as busy and had a short timeline as we did to meet the public infrastructure needs for Panasonic. So in a lot of meetings I think one of the thing and, what's been a blessing to me is the autonomy that Mike has given me that as I got into this, and 'cause I came in '23, kinda right when everything was starting to be designed to be able to, to, to work with our engineers and our contractors.

And when we had meetings, if the decision ne- we had to make a decision. Delaying a decision meant two months delay, which none of us could afford. So having great partners on the contracting side and the engineering side to help kinda guide the city, look at different options so the decision can be made quickly, so we can just-- we could get on down to the next thing was real key and to be able to move forward in maintaining schedule for our On the water, wastewater side, we had, we had great partnerships with HDR and Burns & McDonnell, and then our contractors, Garney, and then [00:39:00] CIS to, to work with them. You know, we had a lot of early bid packages for long lead items that we worked diligently. I think we contracted with Burns & McDonnell CAS in early '22, mid '22.

Scott Heidner: Can you tell me-- Back up a little bit. You just used a phrase there I'm not familiar with. For long range... What'd you say? Early?

Joe Johnson: Early bid packages.

Scott Heidner: For?

Joe Johnson: For long lead items.

Scott Heidner: For long lead items. I bet every one of my members listening knows what that is, but let's-

Joe Johnson: On the

electrical side, they will.

Scott Heidner: Okay. Yeah. You know what? If I'm the only one that doesn't know, let's move on. 'Cause it's the listener that matters here. Okay.

Joe Johnson: Yeah. And then we had, you know, we had components, you know, on our wastewater or the waterside filters and things like that. But, you know, it, it was a collaborative effort between the city and our design construction partners to be able to figure out, you know, how, what is the best way and the best approach to be able to, to, get the pieces together so that we can construct it and build and meet Panasonic's timeline.

Regulatory Partnerships
---

Scott Heidner: Do you have any issues with the feds, whether it's environmental reviews or anything else at all, or pretty, pretty slick there?

Joe Johnson: Yeah. No, I mean, [00:40:00] our, our biggest involvement with, and not really the feds, but with, with, with the state agencies-

Scott Heidner: Mm-hmm

Joe Johnson: ... or KDHE and the Water, same department.

I think what was, what was and Mike alluded to it, is that, you know, this was a, huge project for the state. So there was some guidance from the governor that you will work with the city 'cause, KDHE is not used to doing progressive design build in their review. They want final set of plans.

They review it, make comments. So as we were doing multiple bid packages, we had to work with them. They would make comments. You know, two, three days later, we were responding back to their comments so that they could at least give us a thumbs up to move forward with, procuring these equipment.

And then once we had the final plans done, then they gave their final approval. By that time, we were already 20% into construction. And so, you know, we, we, we developed a really good partnership and trust in working back and forth and, and, and that really helped accelerate our ability to move forward.

Mike Brungardt: I think the team attitude of that, from the governor's office on down it really [00:41:00] showed. You know, KDHE had a dedicated person just to this project. They were meeting with us, you know, every other week. You know, they, they really... I mean, they were part of the early design process. You know, they were...

We were trying to figure out, what the discharge limits were gonna be, what sort of wastewater Panasonic was gonna... And, and larger, we're also dealing with this whole concept of, well, Panasonic's a big deal, but it's only 300 acres. There's 6,000 other acres out there. How much future-proofing we're gonna need to do.

And KDHE was a big part of helping us figure that out. I mean, uh, to me, at, at a certain point, they were an unpaid consultant. To- really, they really were. They acted that. You know, they, they formed that role of kind of an owner's rep almost at certain points.

KDOT Success Story
---

Mike Brungardt: And also, I wanted to mention KDOT was just fantastic.

I mean, they, it's a funny story, and I know you've had Calvin Reed on your, on your podcast.

Scott Heidner: We have.

Mike Brungardt: Well-

Scott Heidner: I'm honored that you knew that .

Mike Brungardt: ... funny thing. He started off as the project manager for this project. The, the... Governor went to, [00:42:00] went to KDOT, and they said, "Hey, we need your best people on this because we have Panasonic coming in and we need to redesign five miles of four-lane divided in De Soto and do it in cooperation with them and do it while they're building a $4 billion facility.

Who's the best person you have to f- head that up?" And they said, "Calvin Reed." So he was our project manager. So Calvin was in these meetings early on, and then came a vacancy at the secretary position, and who do you... who, who's now secretary.

So the governor stole him from us. Uh, So I, I, every time I see her, I tell her. Um, But she doesn't wanna hear that. But- ... um, but anyway, it, it, it just uh, uh, they replaced him with Paul Culsmith, who's also just an absolute rock star.

Scott Heidner: Yeah, absolutely.

Mike Brungardt: Um,

And, they also, it was their first non-traditional- Project delivery project, I think, in the, in the-

Joe Johnson: I think it was their first progressive design-build ...

Mike Brungardt: d- DOT's history and that team worked flawlessly too. So it really was this [00:43:00] whole regional, you know, DeSoto didn't attract this thing all by ourself. Yeah. It's because of our partners and our supporting infrastructure and everything.

And that's, that's, those are good examples of that.

Why Relationships Matter
---

Scott Heidner: Well, I am gonna hijack this podcast for a, a moment of personal privilege, but your story sets up the perfect moment to do it. One of the things that we do as ACEC is we try, oh my gosh, we put a lot of time and resources into trying to convince our members that it's important to have a good relationship with your elected officials, your policymakers, for a variety of reasons, and I think this is a great example.

And, and this might get close to making you guys uncomfortable, but it's a success story, so I'm gonna tell it anyway. When you are dealing with a project and a public owner and other constituencies and concerns and, and state agencies, and you need buy-in or approvals [00:44:00] or what have you In a perfect world, you would not ever need your local elected officials to take an interest in a project or make a phone call or whatever.

But the truth is we don't live in a perfect world, and the truth is the higher the interest level of elected officials and policymakers, oftentimes we see a higher degree of flexibility and can-do attitude from regulators and agencies. And so, this is not in the form of a question. I just stole a soapbox for four minutes to tell-

members this is another great example of why there is real world tangible value in maintaining good relationships with your elected officials. Now, in your case, because of the scope of the project, we're talking about all the way up to the governor's office. But the same is true by matters of degree for all projects all the way down the [00:45:00] food chain as well.

So, appreciate you letting me divert for a-

Mike Brungardt: Yeah. Well, I couldn't agree more, Scott. I mean, you're right. It's about those relationships.

Scott Heidner: It is.

Mike Brungardt: It really is. And, and you know, if they know your face then they know who, you know, they, they know who you are. The other, the other thing about, it kind of comes to leadership a little bit. It's easy to demonize someone you don't know.

It's easy to assume nefarious intent when they make a decision that doesn't seem to square with you. If you know that person, you're less likely to-

Scott Heidner: Oh, can I get an amen? ... to assume that. Yes, yes. One of the things we, we tell our people when we encourage them to reach out and make those relationships, you know, they're always a little leery of, "Well, well, what is it you want me to do, and how do I do that?

What am I trying to communicate to this person," et cetera, et cetera, and they're making the job harder than it is. I will often tell them, especially our leadership classes, literally just go down, let see your face, and get to know that you're neither obsessively angry or [00:46:00] crazy. And if you can do that so that they know when they see your name come up on their cell phone, they don't have to cringe.

Mike Brungardt: Right, yeah.

Scott Heidner: Like, if you can do that, you have just put yourself in the top-

Mike Brungardt: yeah ...

Scott Heidner: 10% of all-

Mike Brungardt: Don't only call on people when you have a reason to call on

them.

Scott Heidner: Oh, my God. Yeah. I'm bringing you to our next leadership program. You are, you are preaching the gospel here.

Surprises and Lessons
---

Scott Heidner: Well, We're getting close to the end of at least the questions I wanted to ask you.

But I think a good- near end summary would be this, and I hope this is really useful for our member listeners as they look to their public sector clients and the opportunities like this. As you've gone through this I'll tell you both the questions I wanna ask, but I'd like to ask you to answer them one at a time, if you would.

What were your biggest surprises? What things arose that you were like, "Oh, boy, we didn't see that coming"? And then I'm gonna ask you a second question, which is, what would [00:47:00] you do different with the benefit of hindsight? How could you have put yourself in a position to get ahead of something, what have you?

So, I might ask each of you in turn, what would you say the biggest surprise or surprises of all of this recent spate of development has been?

Mike Brungardt: Yeah, I think my biggest surprise is probably a result of my own silo of, of information. We're all on these silos of information. And in the world that I'm in, I find it baffling that people don't know what's going on.

Like, y- your topic, whatever topic you're, you're in the general public has... I don't wanna be offen- you know, offend anybody when I s- but a shocking lack of understanding about how local government works, about where their water comes from, about what traffic engineering is, about economic development, and you go on down the specialization curve, it gets worse and worse.

You would be amazed at what people don't have the lo- first [00:48:00] understanding about. And, you know, so that's what shocked me. The people that are like, "Yeah, it's a $4 billion thing and all, but how you gonna mow the grass out?" It's just like, what are you... People are concentrating, they're worried about the wrong things.

And I, you know, it, it just, it just give a little grace, right? They're not all in your bubble. They don't all live your life, right? There's things that are important to them that aren't important to you and vice versa.

And it doesn't make them any less important.

Scott Heidner: That's well said.

Joe, what about you?

Biggest surprise or surprises?

Joe Johnson: I guess being on the construction side, you know, I've worked for KDOT for 30 years on projects. And to be able to see... local agency, I always try to do work with KDOT. We always wanted to try to do design build roadway project, and that just couldn't happen.

So to be able to see that process work through KDOT and to see KDOT's ability to be able to use that on future projects I thought that, that would surprise me how [00:49:00] well it worked for KDOT-

Scott Heidner: Yeah ...

Joe Johnson: and how well KDOT adapted to that. I think the other surprise was just the ability in working with consultants and contractors at the speed at which these projects can be delivered and the cooperation and collaboration that you had between the teams on how to make it work.

It was, I think a lot of owners feel like, "Oh my God, this is gonna be a, a complete nightmare." It wasn't. As long as you're engaged with them and part of that process, it really was a smooth process and, and it was fun to watch.

Scott Heidner: Well, as the guy who works for those firms that you're celebrating, that mu- that answer is music to my ears.

I think that's great. Well, the other question I would pose to you now, whoever wants to go first and this requires, you know, a little bit of a hard look in the mirror perhaps at times, but what would you do different with the benefit of hindsight, knowing what you know now? When did you turn left when perhaps you could have turned right?

What, what are your takeaways from that?

Mike Brungardt: Yeah. I, I think it was maybe that early engagement for that third of the community that nobody, not a single person came to the mayor and said, "Please bring a $4 billion [00:50:00] project to our community." When it happened, maybe half the community was really in, in happy, but a quarter was just, that's the last thing they wanted.

to deeply, more deeply and earlier engage with that segment of the community, I think probably something we could have done a better job with.

Scott Heidner: Joe, what about you?

Joe Johnson: No, I mean, I, I, I think along the same lines. I, I think a lot of times they s- they see these projects, and all they see is how it's gonna impact them.

You know, they don't see what's gonna happen down the line, that the e- the economic impact that, they're going to receive that, allows the city to do things that the city has never been a- able to do. So to be able to kind of show them, you know, the, the positive side of, when these, large projects come in, what that e- economic benefit's gonna be for the city and how that can then t- be turned around to, you know, be used for infrastructure, for public facilities, for parks, you know, whatever it is the citizens may want may change their mind a little bit about-

it's not such a bad- Yeah ... they're a pretty good partner.

Scott Heidner: Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes the bounty takes a few years to see, but, but it comes.

Joe Johnson: Yeah, [00:51:00] absolutely.

Scott Heidner: Mike, you mentioned earlier that, you know, it's amazing how much people don't know about it. Well, it reminds me, I can't remember who said it, but somebody, just one of those clever turns of phrases.

They were asking somebody, "Do you know what the difference between ignorance and apathy is?" And the person's like, "I don't know, and I don't care."

I always thought that was super clever, and I think about that sometimes-

Mike Brungardt: That's great.

Scott Heidner: when you run into those

folks that-

Mike Brungardt: Yeah, love it.

What Comes Next
---

Scott Heidner: Well, let's close

with one more question about DeSoto, and then I'm gonna close with a question for each of you about you. What comes next for the city of DeSoto?

You know, Mike, you've used the term a couple of times. You hit a grand slam in your first at bat. So what does the rest of the ballgame look like?

Mike Brungardt: Well, yeah, you know, we, we continue to pursue the types of advanced manufacturing partners that bring these... the, the benefits that I talked about, you know, the quality of life.

A lot of times in Johnson County, you think, you talk about quality of life, oh, more parks and trails and [00:52:00] schools and programs and things like that, but it's, quality of life starts with a, job, a, a good middle class job that provides you the opportunity to live a middle class life, right? and so we're, we're still in pursuit of that, you know?

So there's thousands of acres more at Astra Enterprise Park that's open. So we continue to pursue those opportunities. But it's no secret that the opportunities are the first, the top on the list are these data centers, and they have undergone almost hysterical-like opposition on- online.

The whole industry has just been incredibly demonized in the last 12 months, and some of that's earned, and some of that's deserved, and there's kernels of truth to all of these conspiracy theories. But the fact of the matter is that, at least locally, they can be done in a way that's massively beneficial for the locals.

They are critical infrastructure. and it's important to not to conflate the fears and worries and real threats, [00:53:00] possibly, that are presented by AI while still, still holding place that AI might also be a good thing for humanity. But that aside, the data centers are critical infrastructure.

And they, they do provide the projects just the revenue benefits for the city. But also you know, the, the idea that it is the next sort of industrial revolution, it's the next big thing and the communities and the areas, the regions that pass up on that opportunity might be left behind in the next wave of prosperity, so.

Scott Heidner: You mentioned that you know, there are concerns out there data centers and AI and, and such, and there's a need for education. It just makes me think when I asked you what would you do different in the last few years and the successes you've had, your answer was, "We should've gotten messaging out to concerned stakeholders earlier."

Sure. We should've got a head start- on that. And it has that exact same flavor on the data centers. And it occurs to me, some things in life change, [00:54:00] some do not. It is my opinion that one of the things that does not change is earlier and more communication almost always makes life easier, not just in your line of work, but in mine and-

Mike Brungardt: Mm-hmm

Scott Heidner: and every other one, too.

Mike Brungardt: Yeah.

Scott Heidner: I think your what would we do different lesson is hugely relevant-

Mike Brungardt: Absolutely

Scott Heidner: ... to every project.

Joe, what about you? What comes next?

Joe Johnson: The next project.

Scott Heidner: Yeah, I love it.

Mike Brungardt: He's not retiring

anytime soon.

We know that much.

Scott Heidner: Spoken like a, spoken like a true engineer.

What comes next?

The next project ...

Joe Johnson: you ki- you kinda wait for the next month, and- ... you see who's next in line, and, and what they need- ... and what we're gonna do. And so that, yeah. I mean, that, that's what's really cool-

Scott Heidner: That's awesome ...

Joe Johnson: about, you know, what I get to do.

Scott Heidner: That's awesome.

Personal Rapid Fire
---

Scott Heidner: Okay, well final question, fellas. This doesn't have anything to do with projects. This is about you. And I'll pose a different question to each of you. And Mike, I just, I had no idea what I was gonna ask you until just before the podcast. But I do now. [00:55:00] But Joe what would we find you doing if you actually had a free weekend?

Not committed to family or anything like that. Joe, Joe doing what Joe enjoys.

Joe Johnson: I'd be down on Table Rock Lake on my boat.

Scott Heidner: Outstanding. Another outstanding answer.

Mike Brungardt: All right. All right.

Scott Heidner: Yeah. Bueno. Well, and I just found out literally just before we hit record, and my jaw hit the floor, Mike Brungardt is a member of...

What's the name of the band again?

Mike Brungardt: Cat Rodeo-

Scott Heidner: Cat Rodeo ... is

Mike Brungardt: the name of the band, yeah ...

Scott Heidner: playing,

Mike Brungardt: A little honky-tonk band out of Lawrence, Kansas

Scott Heidner: ... the, the chosen music.

Mike Brungardt: Yeah. Yeah. We play mostly dive bars and dimly lit places- Yes ... and for almost no money at all.

Scott Heidner: That's the great tradition.

Mike Brungardt: We try to have fun with it, though, but yeah.

I read, I, I read recently where playing an instrument is one of the better, better things you can do to delay mental decline.

And so figure I better, I better start playing my instrument.

That's what I'd be doing. Yeah.

Scott Heidner: That is awesome. So here's my question for you.

Your three favorite classic [00:56:00] country artists of all time in no particular

order

Mike Brungardt: Oh, Dolly Parton is an absolute national treasure- um, and the most universally liked human on the face of the earth.

And the day, if she ever passes away- which I never hope

it.

Oh, nope. I'm gonna be taking the day off.

I'm gonna be pouring one out. So Dolly Parton's top of the list. Waylon Jennings is another one. Waylon, I love Waylon. The boys in Cat Rodeo all love Waylon. We're doing a

Waylon tribute show Scott, as you know, here soon, so,

Scott Heidner: My only regret is that this podcast won't be out by then.

Otherwise-

I'd be putting in a plug to

listeners. Okay.

Mike Brungardt: Waylon. A- and, you know, I don't know, Willie Nelson, you know, the, you know, we, we, we love Willie. Willie, you can't really beat w- beat Willie. John Prine is another one. He's more of an Americana type, but just a a deep inventory of really soulful songs there, so.

Scott Heidner: This is another conversation for another time. But, but besides being awesome, do you know what all four of those have in [00:57:00] common that makes me thumbs up your, your choices?

Mike Brungardt: No.

Scott Heidner: They're not only great artists, all four of those people are sensational writers.

And not just their own material.

I mean, they've all written-

huge, huge hits that-

Mike Brungardt: Yeah, it's the type

of-

Scott Heidner: ... oth- other people sang that don't even know that's whose- wrote the song now.

Mike Brungardt: Yeah, yeah. The type of minds that, that sometimes we don't get exposed to in the engineering world.

Scott Heidner: No doubt.

Mike Brungardt: Right?

Closing Thanks
---

Scott Heidner: Well, gentlemen, I cannot tell you how grateful I am that you said yes to this invitation.

I know you got lots of things you could do with your time. Thanks for saying yes to this and sharing- your successes and your stories and your lessons learned with our members, and we're sure grateful to have you on the show.

Mike Brungardt: Scott, it was a pleasure. Thank you for having us.

appreciate it.

Scott Heidner: Absolutely. Well, listeners hope you enjoyed this edition of the QBS Express. Stay tuned. We'll be back with you soon, and that's all for now [00:58:00]