The QBS Express

QBS_Ep35
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Welcome and Guests
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Scott Heidner: [00:00:00] Welcome listeners to the QBS Express, the ACEC Kansas Podcast. I'm your host executive director Scott Heidner, and today we have one of my favorite episodes of the show that we do every year. We have our current president and our past president here to join us. We're recording on the 1st of February.

I suspect you all will hear this two or three or four weeks down the road. But this is something we do each year where we take a look at the year behind and take a look at the year ahead and nobody better to do that with and the current and past president. So I will give you a brief introduction of our guests and we will jump right into it.

But the ACEC Kansas past president is [00:01:00] Agnes Otto with Burns and McDonald. What do you have, Agnes? Six months left before you're officially put out to pasture five.

Agnes Otto: Yeah, I'm not, I'm not counting

Scott Heidner: right.

Agnes Otto: I think it's five months.

Scott Heidner: I think it is too. Agnes is the past president and we're also here with Brian Armstrong from Bartlett and West, who is our current president. And also, by the way, was kind enough to host us here in the Bartlett and West office today. Thank you for that, sir. Good to have you. And with that, let's dive in.

Let's tell our ACEC members about all the good things we've had going on over the last year. And they'll be just as curious to know what we think we're gonna see in the year ahead.

2025 Legislative Wins
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Scott Heidner: It would not be appropriate to start it with anything other than legislation. Since advocacy is, I think, what most of us see as the primary function and value proposition for ACEC and knock on wood, 2025 was a pretty good year from a [00:02:00] legislative perspective.

Who anybody want to comment on on what went down in 2025?

Agnes Otto: Let me, let me jump in. It was a really good year. If you consider. We've stopped all but stopped sweeping the funding out of the transportation highway transportation fund. Okay.

Scott Heidner: Can I get an amen?

Agnes Otto: Amen. And then we saw a lot of good things happening in the water space.

I think the entire state is happy to see the focus on water, drinking water, agricultural water, all the needs that that we're facing across the state. So I think the number of pieces of legislation that we're seeing around that, the task force that's come together a lot of excitement in in that space.

Water Task Force Focus
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Scott Heidner: Do you want to talk just a little bit about that task force? So for listeners, you may be familiar with the transportation. What they, what did they call that panel?

Brian Armstrong: Local consult.

Scott Heidner: Lo Well, that's the, no, this was the task force they set up prior to the Ike [00:03:00] plan. I don't think it was local consult.

Agnes Otto: No, it was like the legislative something.

Scott Heidner: Yeah, it was a legislative body. I cannot believe the name escapes me now, but it was a legislative body that was set up to go around the state and assess needs and hear from communities. ACEC C had two representatives on that. And the punchline of all this is that the governor has proposed we do something similar with water.

And I think collectively as ACEC, it's our opinion. This is not a moment too soon. Mm-hmm. Probably long overdue. Yeah,

Agnes Otto: I think we said that that group is either, it was just announced to all, was seated on it. I don't know if we've got those names handy, but that should be an exciting time and certainly as you said, Scott, very timely.

Scott Heidner: Yeah, no doubt. Anything Mr. President, you want to add on 2025?

Brian Armstrong: I think, you know, on the, on the flip side, nothing bad really happened. I think a lot of the issues that we were tracking really came to no harm in the end. I know, I [00:04:00] remember going to lunch with you and Senator Dietrich talking about the impending legislative sandbox the re regulatory

Scott Heidner: sandbox

Brian Armstrong: legislation that might happen and that seemed to work its way o Okay.

Through the session. So nothing bad on that end either.

Scott Heidner: Yeah. It's kind of funny to say about a session to ask somebody, oh, tell us, tell us about the good 2025 and to have the answer be nothing bad happened. It sounds a little simplistic, but in reality a lot of times that's the more important part of the equation even than what did happen because there are plenty of things out there that other stakeholder groups would like to see happen that our members would not benefit from.

So the, the untold stories and the nothing bad happened. Summary sometimes are the most impactful of all. For sure. 'cause the legislature's always looking at everything from procurement policies to contract law [00:05:00] to assessment or limitation of liability. I mean, all kinds of things that impact our member firms in a big way.

Agnes Otto: Well, and I think too, it's a testament to, to why we're members, why we believe in the organization. You know, no no news is usually good news when it comes to legislation. Yeah. And I think too, the, the pieces that no one sees or the relationships that are built in the background the ability to get in, see the legislation early and, and, you know, maybe even stop it before, before it gets written. And all of those are reasons why the industry needs to come together and, and why ACEC is so important.

Scott Heidner: Absolutely. And I'll put in a shameless plug, part of the reason we're able to get ahead of these things is because we're blessed with a lot of active members that invest in their relationships with their legislators.

You know, they've got a level of trust there and they make the effort to, to get ahead of these things, which makes a huge difference. Anything else on 2025 legislative session before we charge ahead?

Partnering Committees Overview
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Scott Heidner: Okay, well [00:06:00] why don't we talk then a little bit about some of the, so we partner with folks all over the place, all kinds of different disciplines and areas.

And some of 'em are formal, some of 'em are informal, but it is a huge, huge part of the value proposition and, and where we commit our board members time. Let's start with the formal partnering committee. Some of our members will be familiar with some of these, but probably not all. Agnes, do you want to.

Tackle what we've got on our, our formal partnering committee list and what we do.

Agnes Otto: You bet. Let's start with my favorite alphabet soup committee. Our,

Scott Heidner: we've renamed it. Brad Austin slaps my hand if I call it that these days.

Agnes Otto: Well, Brad, I don't wanna get, I don't wanna get Scott in trouble.

So this is our state design partnering committee. We've got ACEC c Kansas, we've got architects, we've got the State Board of Regents. We've got the state fire marshal, and then we have the OFPM from the state of Kansas. Plugged into [00:07:00] that, that agency is, is that committee is dealing with all the things that we would expect they would deal with.

You know, recently they were able to work to extend some of the upper limits on, on contracts or some interesting and important pieces that have come out of that committee.

Scott Heidner: Yes, yes. the, uh, on call. Minimums

Agnes Otto: your on-call minimums and

Scott Heidner: which inflation, it eroded those away to not very usable numbers.

Yeah,

Agnes Otto: so you can imagine how much time and effort goes into getting a contract done. And for those on either the, the agency side or the consulting side, that's a, that's a huge benefit. We've got the US Army Corps of Engineers Committee that it happens to be a partnering committee that we share with Missouri ACEC in recent months with government shutdowns and such.

It's been a little more quiet, but that group also comes together on a regular basis looking at. Things that benefit the, the core and, and the consulting community. We have the three [00:08:00] major KDOT committees. The, the, the leadership committee liaison committee. And then we've got the road design and the bridge design committees.

A lot of good communications come from, from those groups. It's an opportunity to sit down in meaningful conversations with clients with those agencies and, and I did say with clients, and typically that's what happens. If you talk about the benefits of ACEC it's an opportunity collectively to be listening, hearing changes opportunities, concerns in a, in a really great setting to really find out what, what is of the most importance as we, as we have those conversations.

The other interesting committee, and maybe we would, we would tag into this a little bit later, but there's the, the informal partnering that, that we then do with KDHE. And that has been an evolving effort. Tom Styles has, retired now. He's been [00:09:00] replaced by William Carr and Brent Johnson on the board.

And Jeff Keller. We've got some folks from Water One. It's a good group of folks that meet on a, on a quarterly basis now, and they're also reporting back to the board in terms of efforts things of importance to our, our water industry.

Scott Heidner: Just a editorial note here, I wanna switch over to, to Brian to ask about some of the other partnerships we have and some of the efforts we have underway.

But on the KDHE side. It would be a logical question for some members to say, my gosh, you know, KDHE is a huge partner. I mean, they have so many projects and so many resources. Why are they on the informal list and not the formal list? And it would be, it's the right question to ask. And I thought I would offer this before we move on.

Board members know, but listeners may not. We have looked at a formal partnering committee with KDHE over the years, but to put it in the [00:10:00] simplest terms, their remit is almost too big. You know, there are. Member firms that do different things for KDHE that have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

There's everything from environmental remediation to drinking water, to wastewater, to there's just a hundred different things and we found it hard to coalesce around one thing that you can put a static partnering committee together. But what we've done in lieu of that and partnered with KSPE on this, is to try and have these conversations with leadership intermittently every couple months, once a quarter.

Just so we still do have that venue to go talk about the things that are impacting our firms and, and impacting KDHE too. Well, Mr. President, do you want to talk about some of the other things that ACEC invests in and has over the last year?

KSPE Collaboration
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Brian Armstrong: Sure. Scott, I'd like to jump into that. So maybe one is KSPE.

You had just touched on that. I actually started going to KSPE meetings, Kansas [00:11:00] Society of Professional Engineers in the mid nineties when Jim Kre at the time invited me to a meeting. And that's probably the first organization I joined right outta college.

Scott Heidner: You've just dated yourself pretty badly there, sir.

That

Brian Armstrong: is

Scott Heidner: mid nineties.

Brian Armstrong: That is

Scott Heidner: we will have listeners that literally weren't alive at that point. Sorry, go ahead.

Brian Armstrong: Very true statement. I, I, I interviewed someone last week in that same situation. So yeah, I actually got in really involved with KSPE through our local Topeka chapter. Got on the state board.

I was KSPE President in 2010. Went on at the national level. I was NSPE Treasurer elected to that position for a couple years and then kind of got out of it. But KSPE and ACEC have a really unique relationship. KSPE has. Practice divisions within them that are, are the same as [00:12:00] what national is on on their side.

Professional engineers and private practice is a practice division, and Kansas is very unique in that ACEC serves as that pep section. So really good relationship and, and actually our ACEC annual meeting is a part of the KSPE annual conference.

Scott Heidner: Yeah, and can I add a editorial note here too? Some listeners may know this, but in most states they don't have this dynamic where ACEC serves as the PEP chapter.

And so in reality, the KSPE. Pep chapter really competes with ACEC and it's kind of a nobody wins situation. It's the same, it's the exact same market, the same membership. You're just asking them to split their loyalty or join twice, that kind of thing. And so yeah, it's been a, it's been a wonderful collaboration here.

And I can say that [00:13:00] shamelessly because it was somebody that came along before me that, you know, had that vision. And I'm grateful that they did. 'cause it's a huge deal.

Brian Armstrong: Yeah. I mean, our ours, it's always worked so well that it's hard to imagine not doing that. But you mentioned neighboring states and I mean, they range from, I mean, competing against each other to really not liking each other in a, in a very combative way that I mean it just, it makes us appreciate even more how how we work together.

Scott Heidner: Yeah. Do you wanna talk about some of the non-engineering partnerships we have as well? I'm thinking specifically maybe with the local units of government, Mr. Armstrong, you wanna tackle that?

Brian Armstrong: Yeah. Yeah.

Local Government Awards
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Brian Armstrong: So one thing that ACEC does at Kansas unique to our state is we do city and county public improvement awards.

So each year we have awards that go out to city projects and to county projects based [00:14:00] on certain criteria and types. Those award winners then are given at really a conference of their peers. So on the city side, the city managers conference. Put on by the League of Municipalities the City Public Improvement Awards are given out at, at that conference.

I actually went to that one this year in Emporia. Got to sit in for several hours of the City Manager's conference and really cool interaction of that group. And hearing them talk about, I mean, their budget and plan for the year as, as a, as an organization was really neat. And then on the, on the same side, the Kansas Association of Counties, the Annual Counties Conference, statewide, our County Improvement awards are given out at that meeting as well.

So,

Scott Heidner: yeah. And you know, to be blunt what that means from a, a selfish perspective for a member, if you win an award, the award is [00:15:00] given at the, let's say the Kansas Association of County's annual Conference. So the. End result is you're, you as somebody that markets yourself and your firm to all of these local units of government.

You are sitting in front of the leadership of, you know, a hundred ish Kansas County leadership teams being showcased for how great your design work is. Pretty, pretty cheap pr

Agnes Otto: it's great PR Yeah. And I would encourage all, all the folks listening those awards are due about the same time every year.

Scott Heidner: Mm-hmm.

Agnes Otto: Put it on your calendar and hit recurring annually so that you're, you've got a heads up on getting those entries in. It is a great way to recognize your client and celebrate the completion of some really good work.

Scott Heidner: Yeah, it is. Do you wanna talk for just a minute? It's, it's discipline specific, but do you wanna talk about our relationship with economic lifelines?

Economic Lifelines Day
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Brian Armstrong: Sure, sure. So, economic lifelines, statewide organization. Their sole mission is [00:16:00] transportation funding securing both future program transportation funding, but again, maintaining and protecting funding we have right now in the legislature that really, made up of members of cities and counties across the state engineering firms across the state, all towards that same end content.

Some really great monthly Zoom calls. They get guest speakers to come on. Last month was actually the state budget chair for Governor Kelly. A really great look at what her budget looks like, what this year's budget looks like that affects transportation funding all signs good.

Kdot protected and funded at least in the initial discussions of where that's going and really the. The, the main event of economic lifelines is their transportation day at the Capitol. March 11th, I believe this year. Really cool day of some time to go to the State House to meet individually with your [00:17:00] legislature, legislators, if you set some time up.

There's a special opportunity this year for sponsors to have lunch with the Secretary Reed of Kdot secretary Reed of transportation. And then really followed by a big meeting of everyone. In the afternoon, there's a legislative panel talking about transportation issues and. Really good chance to hear from Kdot on what, what transportation looks like the next year from their perspective as well.

So,

Scott Heidner: and followed by a reception with the entire legislature invited too to, to visit about transportation. One comment on that, and then if you would, Brian, I'd also like to pick your brain about the scholarships program that we have here and how it ties into national. But one last note on economic lifelines, you know, we bring that up not just to, you know, sales pitch them, although we share a, a mission critical mindset with them.

But specifically ACEC c Kansas is a [00:18:00] member of economic lifelines, and we have two of our members, two of our past presidents serve on the economic lifelines board of directors. So it's. You know, even if we were arm's length from economic lifelines, we'd be excited about what they're trying to do. But we are far from arm's length.

We've got a a long, long, rich partnership with two of our past presidents serving on the board as we speak.

Agnes Otto: I have another compelling reason to go to the day at the Capitol. Many years ago, and it wasn't quite the nineties, although I'm a lot older than Brian is. I met a fellow there for the first time by the name of Scott Heidner.

Scott Heidner: Oh, for heaven's sakes. Oh my gosh. You're gonna have to tell a more compelling story than that.

Agnes Otto: No, it, it, it really was. I was trying to dig in. I'd been doing some national work. I was trying to dig in and I went to day at the engineers, you know, day at the Capitol, legislative day at the Capitol, and this great guy came up and.

Just, [00:19:00] you know, Scott's never met a stranger. And I might be stranger the most, but, but a great conversation and the rest, as they say is history. So there you go. It is, well, another reason to go to legislative day at the Capitol.

Scott Heidner: You are ki kind beyond measure. That is, that is overly kind and I will tell listeners we'll, we'll get you a, a better experience than, than meeting me when you come to the Capitol.

But it is where waterfall relationships are born.

Agnes Otto: Absolutely.

Scott Heidner: It always is. No doubt.

Scholarships and National
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Scott Heidner: Well, Mr. President, why don't you talk to us a little bit about scholarships and then I wanna switch to some of the in-person meetings that we do throughout the state and talk about how we did in 2025.

Brian Armstrong: Sure. So, yeah, one of the things our board's really passionate about is, funding scholarships for those in the STEM pathway. Trying to get more kids in involved and interested in engineering and helping those kids already in the program continue on. So we at a, at a [00:20:00] board level, have tried to increase our scholarship funding amounts the last couple of years.

A lot of great applicants, but we still continue to try to get the message out. If you have kids or no kids or no universities that are tied to engineering that we need as many applications as, as we can get on that end. But one of the really cool things is our, our Kansas winners then have a chance to compete at the national level with ACEC National.

And we had I I think last year an award winner that went on to national and, and got a really big national scholarship. As a part of that I think she did a podcast with us as well. Mm-hmm.

Scott Heidner: She did. She did. She did. And she, no surprise. She's doing great in life now. We have. Been very fortunate.

Brian mentioned that state winners move on to compete at the national level and Kansas has really out punched its weight in the success our folks have had at the national [00:21:00] level. And it also leads, you also mentioned the podcast, one of my favorite podcasts. Each year we try and get our scholarship winners to join us.

And that's always super cool to hear their story. What appeals to them as they're looking at what kind of job they want to have and what kind of employer they wanna work for and that kind of stuff. It's always pretty eye-opening. That's a good one.

Statewide Member Lunches
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Scott Heidner: Okay, well, let's change gears. We've talked about some of the more static relationships and committees but we also have some ever changing things like our membership lunches around the state where the speaker's never the same twice.

And some other partnering conferences, the same thing where the agenda changes every year. Can I keep picking on you, Mr. President? Yep. Do you want to, you probably have done the membership lunches the most recently,

Brian Armstrong: right? Yeah. So fall, we kind of wrapped that up, so we had. Four different membership lunches last fall Manhattan, Wichita, Lawrence, and Kansas [00:22:00] City.

Each of those kind of starts off our board meets as a group prior to the membership lunch. And then we have work with the board to get some local guest speakers for the luncheon whatever of interest in the engineering or development or city issues that are going on. And then really we invite all our members in that area to come out to lunch.

Really good chance to get to interact with a lot of them that we don't see unless it's in that area. So Wichita for instance a lot of people that we don't really get to see all the time up northeast. So it's a good way to get across the state. And I mean, it's an opportunity to recruit new members as well.

So as our membership committee finds perspective clients to that we would like to join ACEC, we'll invite them to lunch as well, to get some interaction with the board and others and really a, a good chance for them to see kind of how we a act and operate.

Scott Heidner: And the speakers usually have a local flavor.

Not [00:23:00] always, but most of the time. Don't you folks try to recruit somebody that's got. Local significance in one way or another?

Brian Armstrong: For for, yeah, for sure. I meaning in Manhattan we had a professor at K State helping in Wichita. It's usually the city of Wichita. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, it's here in Lawrence we had people tied to the, the KU Endowment Association and the development of the whole East campus and what that development's gonna look like.

So yeah, really focused on stuff going on in that community.

Scott Heidner: Yeah. On a personal note, it's been pretty cool. I take the Lawrence paper and since that presentation, they've had multiple announcements of new developments and investments in that area that we heard all about at the lunch. It was pretty cool.

Brian Armstrong: That's cool.

Scott Heidner: Yeah. And, you know, I think the shortest summary I would give about, the membership lunches is, you mentioned recruiting new members, which is a big part of it, but mostly that's our best chance to go hear from the existing members. You know, that is the greatest opportunity we have, honestly, to sit down [00:24:00] and not only talk to, but hear from all those folks that make up the ACEC membership.

KDOT Partnering Conference
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Scott Heidner: Who wants to tackle the biggie, the 800 pound gorilla? Our biggest conference of the year is the ACEC K Doc partnering conference.

Agnes Otto: I, I can sure jump in on that one. I feel like maybe you sold all the tickets last year. Standing room only. That was a big crowd. What did you end up with?

Scott Heidner: Three 30 something or other?

We ran outta space. We actually had, closed registration, first time that's ever happened.

Agnes Otto: Yeah. And just a, a really, really thoughtful day. You know, I, I think all of us worry about how much time we can give up and, and this is definitely time well spent that opportunity to hear directly from Kdot, KTA leadership.

Those folks always commit a lot of their time and stay for a really good part of the day. It's a great opportunity to see some really interesting projects. I felt like, I wish I could remember off the top of my head what we [00:25:00] had last year, but

Scott Heidner: I know there's the really cool one on the bridge.

Agnes Otto: Yeah,

Brian Armstrong: it was the bridge that got hit on the turnpike, so the emergency repair and how people dove into action late at night on a weekend and people coming from around the state. Emergency response and

Scott Heidner: yeah,

Brian Armstrong: really a really super short timeline to get redesigned and reconstruction to get it back open.

Agnes Otto: Just a lot of heroic efforts and, you know, our listeners probably don't realize that we all, you know, do wear capes and we've got some quick change kind of stuff going on. But great opportunity and you know, that. That piece of it again, is building relationships. You know, the folks that you get to sit at a table with the, the, the lunches, the, there's always such a great networking element to, to that program.

And, and you know, along with the partnering conference, the, we do that one annually, but, but [00:26:00] every two years we do the, the Rural Development Seminar. And that's been an another important opportunity to get with some of the other state agencies, especially department of Water Resources, the Department of Agriculture and, and KDHE.

So those are two really important seminars, conferences that ACEC ACEC E sees at the forefront of,

Scott Heidner: yeah.

Water Quality Seminar
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Scott Heidner: And the one, at least the one I'm thinking of that we haven't mentioned yet is kind of following the same path as legislation where. From an infrastructure funding perspective, transportation's been the, the biggest shape in the room for a long time.

But on the legislative side, water has really, really been narrowing that gap. And same thing is true on our conferences. Who wants to answer the pop quiz? What's the other standing conference we have every year? Anybody?

Brian Armstrong: I'll take that one. Water quality seminar.

Scott Heidner: Outstanding.

Brian Armstrong: But really it's those same agencies, DWR, department of Ag, KDHE, [00:27:00] community Development Block Grant for a one day seminar coming up in March.

But it, it is sold out. It's

Scott Heidner: also sold out. Yeah.

Brian Armstrong: 110 or so. Attendees and waiting lists to, to get in the door. So,

Scott Heidner: seems like we beat this drum all the time lately, but that's okay. 'cause it's a good thing. Water as an issue overdue. Getting a lot more profile of late and a lot more funding.

Hopefully more of that to come.

QBS Procurement Advocacy
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Scott Heidner: Okay, let's talk about this is, when I was hired 25 years ago, I was told this was the most important part of the job. And I will tell, you know, however many years from now, the same thing to the next person to procurement A CECs number one. Advocacy position is qualifications based selection when procuring professional design services.

So we don't need to broach the whole subject and the [00:28:00] rationale behind it, but would one of you want to talk to listeners a little bit about what the board does? To invest in education and outreach and to be responsive to members on the procurement side.

Agnes Otto: You bet. So in my mind, and if you started listening listing the top three reasons why ACEC C Kansas is, is bringing tremendous value.

You put QBS qualifications based selection right at the top of that list as the engineering community. It is incredibly important that that element of the procurement process remains not something that gets sold to the lowest bidder. And we work actively across the region. In addition to working with national to make sure that those elements stay in, stay in statute.

One of the biggest benefits of a an advocacy collaborative as ACEC C is, is when you come across an agency or a client who [00:29:00] seems to be breaking away from QBS coming out with direct bid kinds of RFPs, you have an opportunity for in your membership to come to the leadership at, at ACEC and, and request privacy.

But also to request direct outreach by ACEC on behalf of Ace C'S membership to, to have a conversation with that with that entity. About QBS. We are really lucky to have had a gentleman by the name of Babe com Comstock support us in this avenue for many, many years. He does a couple of things just.

You know, what Dave does as requested. So, like I said, if you're coming across an RFP out there that has a, has a pricing component and has moved away from QBS a call to Scott Heidner will, will trigger Comstock and, and put him into action. Dave also then goes to a number of, of conferences throughout the years.

You won't throughout the year, you won't find [00:30:00] him sitting in a booth somewhere. That's not his style. He's working the room, he's asking questions making sure that the way is smooth in the, in the QBS arena. So again this really speaks to the heart and core of, of what our industry does as professional engineers and there's nothing more important.

Scott Heidner: Yeah. Amen to that. A couple things I want to add to that, and then Brian, I want to ask you about, a little bit about the Emerging Leaders Program. As a last step before we get into perhaps something a little more personal about your own journey, serving on the board, but before we leave QBS, Agnes, you mentioned a couple things that I want to say more about.

You mentioned the privacy component. Our listeners that have, have worked with David Comstock before know this, but I wanna make sure everybody else does too. When somebody calls us and asks us to, to reach out to an owner group, David's message to those folks is, Hey, I am calling on behalf of ACEC, [00:31:00] Kansas, and its member firms and they have asked me to.

And so there's never any mention of an individual firm of an individual name. We're the buffer. You know, our member firms don't want to jeopardize client relationships by taking a perhaps misguided RFP back to them and pointing out. Where they may be losing value in that. And that's why we have David and he protects the brand of, of the individuals in your relationship.

So I think that's important. And also want to add one thing you had mentioned that he will, you know, if, if you see one of those things, you can reach out to me and we'll ask David to make a contact there. But one thing that I don't do a good enough job. Of saying often enough, you don't have to wait for that.

David is glad to reach out proactively too. And a common time to do that might be perhaps you have an election and you have new county commissioners or city commissioners or maybe local unit of government hires, a new [00:32:00] procurement officer. You know, there are times when the ounce of prevention can be better than the pound cure.

And I don't think I, day to day, I don't do a good enough job of trying to make sure our folks know David can help with that too. So I wanted to mention that.

Emerging Leaders Program
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Scott Heidner: Brian, can I ask you, because you are a graduate of the program, the Emerging Leaders Program I will selfishly say I think it's one of the more important things we do.

It's certainly my passion. But what would you want listeners to know about the program? We advertise this pretty hard. Most of our folks probably know something about it. But as a business leader, not just a board president, you have to make a decision on, do you wanna send somebody, what's the value proposition?

What do you think of when you think of the Emerging Leaders Program and what it means and why it matters?

Brian Armstrong: Yeah. So first thing that comes to mind is, I mean, it is the crown jewel of ACEC Kansas and what we can offer consulting firms to help really give a great experience to some of their up and coming leaders.

Really the [00:33:00] ELP program, I mean, really developed by you and your team is is probably in its 19th year, is that

Scott Heidner: I think that's right. Maybe 18 or 17. I can't remember if we skipped one or two years for COVID, but Yeah.

Brian Armstrong: Right, right. This

Scott Heidner: is the 20th year. It's been around.

Brian Armstrong: Excellent.

ELP Program Evolution
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Brian Armstrong: First class was in 2007.

I think I was in year two, 2008. But really the, the structure and content is really similar today than, than than what it was when I started really focused on three different day and a half sessions. Topeka, Wichita, Kansas City. But really the core programs remain the same. Insurance and risk government affairs have former speaker Pro Tem Blaine Finch leading that discussion.

Scott Heidner: That's a pure, pure entertainment as well as knowledge, having Finch.

Brian Armstrong: Yeah, what, what I, what I remember and really really enjoyed was the senior leaders round [00:34:00] table. We still today have. Three or four senior leaders from engineering firms across the state telling their story, answering questions.

That's amazing.

HR That Isn’t Boring
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Brian Armstrong: What about the HR section? What's that look like these days?

Scott Heidner: Yeah, funny, we were talking about this, Agnes and Brian and I earlier. HR is, if you just put HR on a training guide it, you know, people tend to doze off. We've all sat through HR training. It's not that it's not important, it's incredibly important, but it tends to be pretty dry.

We're very fortunate to have a HR speaker who is not dry. He is very, very, entertaining, charismatic. And I'll just say one thing and we can move on, but his first question is to ask class members, you know, what do you think the purpose of your HR team is? And, and they give the answers. You would think of helping us staff and with insurance and compliance, with, you know, contract requirements, et cetera.

And, and his [00:35:00] answer is, if that's what your HR department does, go back tomorrow and fire them all. Because those are tactical things that you can outsource to a third party. You know, your HR department needs to be strategic. And it's just fun to see people challenged with that fresh way of thinking about things.

So yeah, hr, which in some programs can almost feel like a liability to fill in terms of drawing people's interest for ELP, I think is, we're fortunate that it's something different. Thanks to Tony.

Brian Armstrong: Yeah.

Hostage Negotiation Lessons
---

Brian Armstrong: Another session by Dan ob Oblinger FBI. Hostage. Negotiator?

Scott Heidner: Yeah. How cool is that?

Brian Armstrong: I know

Scott Heidner: hostage negotiator.

Brian Armstrong: My firm has hired Dan after getting exposed to him in ELP program to help us internally. I know our ACEC Midwest States Conference has had Dan as a part of that as well. So really cool content from him.

Business Development Panel
---

Brian Armstrong: And then one of the things that maybe Agnes can help with a little is the business development panel.

Agnes Otto: [00:36:00] Yeah. You know, I, I, Scott's just asked me to do year three on the business development panel. No, good

Scott Heidner: goes unpunished.

Agnes Otto: Looking forward to it. I've, I've had partners in crime in putting that panel together to Nugent and, and Jeff Hancock last year we were joined by, by Mike Lowy. It's a lot of fun.

When we first did it, we were really looking at one another, trying to figure out how we were gonna fill three hours worth of time. And when you combine, you know, decades of, in of experience, it didn't take us long to,

Scott Heidner: no. Especially not when it's interactive. Yeah. And you're giving them a chance to weigh in as well.

Agnes Otto: Yeah. It's a lot of fun. So really looking forward to that again. And I just am continually impressed by the caliber of folks in that room. Gives me a lot of warm thoughts about the industry and where we're headed.

Scott Heidner: It reassures you, doesn't it?

Agnes Otto: It does.

Scott Heidner: I feel exactly the same way. That's why it's my favorite part of what I get to do here because it's inspiring.

Mm-hmm. You know, we're supposed to be there training them, but I always feel like they're teaching us about as much as [00:37:00] we're teaching them.

Brian Armstrong: Yeah.

Scott Heidner: Pretty exceptional people.

Brian Armstrong: Yeah.

Board Journeys and Mentors
---

Scott Heidner: Well, let's change gears. I want to ask you all on a, this is still, you know, work in ACEC specific, but it's a little bit more personal.

And that is what's, has your journey been on the board and what have you enjoyed about it? Or, or what have you not, you know, what was harder than you thought it would be? I'd just love to know about your experience you know, how it, it did or didn't match what you thought it would be. Going into it.

And I'll start with this question. Would you maybe go over briefly. How did you get here? Nobody ever just parachutes in from left field. Somebody always had a path. They knew somebody or they served somewhere, or a relationship was forged. Something. Got everybody here. What was yours?

Agnes Otto: I'll tie in 'cause it's kind of a, it's a continuation of, of meeting Scott Heidner for the first time.

And for folks listening at the time, I was I've been doing a [00:38:00] lot of national work with the firm I was with at the time, and I needed to come back and focus locally. I was just taking the position as a, as a local area manager for a large firm here in the region. And I knew that ACEC was the key to getting some relationships going.

And Brad Shores, said, Hey, I got a note from Jeff Hancock that said, go to this economic lifeline thing. You gotta, you gotta get there and give him a, give him a couple hundred bucks and, and show up. And I can't remember if that came before or after Joe Dremel hijacking me to run the national pack.

In any case, it probably all happened about the same time.

Scott Heidner: I think it was before. I think you got way laid on the pack position later. Yeah. For if memory serves.

Agnes Otto: Yeah. So I walked, up to Hancock and said, Brad Shore says you're a good guy. That's good enough for me.

And that was probably one of my first forays into really digging in. And then I just started going to [00:39:00] membership lunches and then, joe and Scott reached out to me and said, there's this thing called the National PAC Chair. So I took on that role and then they were as good as their word and helped steer me toward the board.

I really, it, it's hard to say, and I'm sitting here looking at Brian. I feel like we've become really good friends through all of this. We've gotten to take walks around New Orleans and DC and all sorts of fun places and listen to some great music together and, and just building friendships knowing that if something.

Tough comes up in the industry or in your life. You've got a, you know, you can pick up the phone and call somebody. I don't know that any of it's been, you know, we all, we all laugh about writing the newsletter when we're on the board. But I actually, that was a personal challenge for me. And I, I, I did enjoy it.

I think one of the things that I've really appreciated is getting back to understanding the [00:40:00] legislative process and, and really understanding that your voice can, can be heard and that it does make a difference. And it's a little bit shocking at how legislation could absolutely sneak through if somebody was on their watch.

So, yeah, it, it, you, you mentioned earlier about my, my remaining five months. I, it's, it's been tremendous.

Scott Heidner: Yeah.

Agnes Otto: It's been tremendous,

Scott Heidner: kind, kind words. And I share your sentiment that it can keep you up at night, how fast things can go badly. Oh, yeah. At the legislature, if you're not, not on point. Mr.

Mr. President, what about you? Tell us about your journey.

Brian Armstrong: Well I'm into history these days as our company is celebrating. Its 75th. We've had a lot of looking back and celebrating. And 1970 bus Bartlett was ACEC, Kansas president. Never met Bus, but the, the four that followed him from our firm were all great mentors to me.

Mike [00:41:00] Dunaway Jim Kring, who I interview with on campus at K State and, and worked for initially, and then Keith Warda and Joe Caldwell. It was,

Scott Heidner: so you're president number six from Bartlett West?

Brian Armstrong: I am.

Scott Heidner: That's impressive. On, on their count and yours.

Brian Armstrong: And having worked for Keith for most of my career, I mean, heard all the time about ACEC and his involvement on the board and kind of the business interest side of things.

Even though I was more serving on the KSPE side but really as Keith was getting closer to retirement he really asked me to take a more serious look at ACEC and getting involved. I started then on the ACEC e CCK DO liaison committee. And spent a few years on that just eye-opening the access that we got to CDOT and their leadership team and the information they shared with us.

[00:42:00] And then my third year, I was chair of that committee within Calvin Reed, before he was secretary. Calvin really really encouraged us to be more collaborative in those meetings. Bring our agenda to the table, work together on discussions, and really took that to a, a higher level. It, it, it maybe kind of got lost in individual areas, reporting what's going on, but a lot more collaborative discussion thanks to his leadership.

And, and then yeah, kind of rolled from that liaison committee onto the, onto the board. So, great learning curve to interact with the board from the liaison committee and share information back and forth together. And that was just a great lead in to serving. Yeah, it, it, it definitely is more than I thought it would be.

Really the interaction with ACEC National I, I, I really didn't know much about them coming into it. [00:43:00] They just have a huge umbrella of support and leadership team at the national level that provides support down to individual member organizations or states. And that that interaction has been amazing.

And then, yeah, really as Agnes said, getting to make relationships with really our, our board and, and others throughout the engineering industry as. Go about the state and legislative process and really cool way to, to get, to be more politically involved and really understand the business side of engineering a lot more.

Scott Heidner: Yeah. Some random trivia, but I know our, a lot of our engineers love their statistics as I do too. Do you two remember? I think I have this data point, right? Your president. Number six from Bartlett West. We did this exercise at the past President's dinner. Do you know which firm I think has the most past [00:44:00] presidents?

Anybody remember?

Brian Armstrong: PEC?

Scott Heidner: No, they're up there too. Wilson. Huh?

Agnes Otto: That's right.

Scott Heidner: Yeah, it was Wilson.

Agnes Otto: I'm almost sure it's like, because Troy was there and we were talking about that. Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Heidner: Also Armstrong, your 2008 ELP class. Three. Board members and, no, excuse me, four board members and counting have joined you there.

Susie Carpenter has been on the ACEC, Kansas board. Jeff Keller, excuse me, has been on the ACEC board. Kevin Wallace has been on the ACEC c Missouri board, so and

Brian Armstrong: president. Yeah.

Scott Heidner: And president, yeah. Quite a, quite an impressive class.

Why Serve on the Board
---

Scott Heidner: Well, let me ask you a couple other things about being on the board, because, you know, in some ways this podcast isn't meant to be a, you know, a self-promotion of ACEC, but when we're talking about all the things we do and how much it means to us, I suppose it is a little bit a [00:45:00] celebration of ACEC and.

Let's embrace that for a minute. And imagine you've got some members around and you're having a conversation with them and they are asking the question you know, is it worth the time? Why would you do it? What's your ROI on this? What would your answer be to somebody and answer it however you want.

But I'd encourage you to be as specific as you want to be. 'cause ROI is hard to measure. If you leave, it's simply, oh, I make great relationships. And there is a lot that goes on that's more specific than that. The exposure to other entities, you know, that kind of thing. I'll, I'll stop there. What would you say to somebody that says to you, I'm a senior in a senior position at my firm.

I've got more demands than I have time. Why should I say yes to being on the ACEC board?

That the silence is not gonna sell.

Agnes Otto: I think, no. I think fundamentally, you know, me, I was trying to pick the [00:46:00] right words and they weren't coming as quickly. I think fundamentally it's when you need to be more than a single voice. And if I think about the big difference makers, it's coming together as a collective.

Talking to the legislature, talking to elected officials, talking to owners and agencies when they want to hear from more than one person because they've got a, they've got a vote voter Kuhn contingency that they need to make sure they're representing that, that they're working with taxpayer dollars and they need to make sure that they're a good steward of taxpayer dollars.

Typically one voice is not enough. But if you can have an organized collective coming to the table and saying, this matters, this matters to a lot of people. And how does this impact us? Well I would go back to the 10 year Ike bill. I would look at what's happening with [00:47:00] water today.

I would look at everything that's been done over the years to make sure that our licensure doesn't slip. And I just talked about QBS. So I think when more than one voice has to be heard, that's why this is critical. And that's the ROI,

Scott Heidner: yeah. Mr. President.

Brian Armstrong: Yeah. Maybe just to add a little Hamilton.

Sometimes you want to be in the room where it happens. We talked about all the partnering groups and committees that we're on being a part of this organization, you, you get access to all of those, all of those discussions and information and really, it, it just really helps you understand what's going on in a lot of different agencies and directions that you would never be able to follow all of those or, or get in.

Insight kind of behind the scenes and direct from those clients. Then, then you can get with us.

Scott Heidner: I might add one thing from my chair [00:48:00] as an observer. Before I do though, I want to add, I just bragged about your 2008 ELP class and for crying out loud, I don't think I said Brent Johnson's name. He's on the board with us.

Yeah, right now. Right now today. Another guy skipped him. That's

Brian Armstrong: awesome.

Scott Heidner: So five of you have been on the state boards in Missouri and Kansas. But anyway let me add one thing that it seems to me is an ROI on being on the board. So relationships are everything in this business as they are in most, and not just in getting the business, it's.

It's everything. I mean, the reason that our member firms join their local chambers of commerce, well that's not engineering specific, but it's darn Sure. Relationship specific and what ACEC what, being not just a member of ACEC but being on the board. You know, because my question is what's the ROI specifically to saying yes to a board position, [00:49:00] but the number of folks that you all get to spend time with and have a comfort level with and be able to call seems to me to be a great tool to our board members.

I think of the staff at ACEC National. Now, technically any one of our members can pick up the phone and call ACEC National anytime. That's why they're there. And they are happy to serve anybody. But in my experience. Our board members think to use that resource a lot faster. They're a lot more comfortable doing it.

And so when I look out there at member firms, you know, any of them can call ACEC and say, Hey, we've seen a change in procurement on Department of the interior contracts, whatever, whatever. But it's our board members that tend to do it because that's a warm relationship. You know, it's a known commodity and.

Part of what we do is, you know, if we have PAC checks to deliver to [00:50:00] legislative leadership or members of our federal delegation, you know, it's the board mm-hmm. That gets invited to participate. That it's the board that then gets to meet their chief of staff. That's with them orchestrating things in the corner of the room.

When a state agency, be it KDHE or Kdot or whoever reaches out and says, we'd like to have a conversation that maybe goes beyond the, the partnering committees we have in place, can you make time for that? It's our board that shows up. And to me, you know, how do you, how do you put a price tag on that sort of exposure and gaining those sorts of relationships and being seen by those other entities?

I mean, they know there are thousands of people in the Kansas consulting engineering industry and you were the nine that were chosen to represent it. In addition to the good we do for the industry. Mm-hmm. I think there is direct firm specific ROI to those opportunities.

Agnes Otto: I think so, and I [00:51:00] think about all the opportunities that are created to meet the, the ACEC national leadership to come together at the Midwest States Conference and, and meet other Midwestern leaders.

The opportunity to get our specific issues addressed at the, at the federal level. I think all of that matters and the, the kind of work that we all do today, there's almost all always teaming involved, and the relationships at those tables makes a big difference in terms of who do you partner up with on the next, on the next big project.

So yeah, A lot, a lot happens in those rooms. You know, even, even some of the Erica Jensen you know, I, I look at some of the. Whoever knew I would end up on a whitewater raft with

Scott Heidner: with a colleague from

Agnes Otto: Alaska, with a colleague from Alaska who had Kansas City roots. Yeah. So there are just some really special things that happen all the way from lifelong relationships to your partner on the next [00:52:00] $10 million job.

Scott Heidner: Yeah.

Brian Armstrong: Yeah. I, well, I would've led with building relationships. But you specifically said ROI besides building relationships.

Scott Heidner: Oh, did I really?

Brian Armstrong: You kinda eliminated it from our answer and then highlighted. It's the main main point in the end.

Scott Heidner: That's just bad hosting right there. Did I really? Oh my gosh.

Well, and there went my chance to edit it out. You just called, called me out. It's a bad, bad hosting. Well, let me ask you all one more question and then we're gonna head towards close. Believe it or not, we've been added an hour already, and that's mostly me. Rattling on with my own thoughts on these, but before we get to closing round of questions, this has been a good review of the year behind and a pretty good review of ACEC C in general and, and why we're here.

Year Ahead Infrastructure and AI
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Scott Heidner: But let's try to look into the crystal ball and forecast the year ahead a little bit. Any thoughts on what's to come or anything that you would wanna share that you know is coming that you're excited about or [00:53:00] that you are working to ensure doesn't come along? Anything you wanna share about the year ahead, either factual or speculative?

Brian Armstrong: Yeah, I think on the infrastructure perspective I mean, maintaining funding both on the water and transportation side are, are key. And I think we've heard already that, I mean the, the initial budgets both from the governor and, and legislature. Are still headed in that direction, that transportation still fully funded.

No extra ordinary transfers coming out of that, and that there still is that commitment to water. We've, we've already talked about the governor's task force, and I think still a commitment to keep trying to find a solution for some of those water issues we're having in Western part of the state.

Agnes Otto: I would say maybe the other thing that, that I think of as we look forward is that this sort of combination of things that's coming together with technology and protecting [00:54:00] procurement methods. There is a concern. I think as we look at AI and, and the direction that computational design is headed that folks will try to commoditize our industry and we are going to continue to need to have a a very loud and smart voice where that's concerned.

Yeah, I think maintaining qualifications based selection, it's really protecting the intelligence that the engineer brings to the table. Does that mean that our, our deliverables aren't going to change? Our deliverables are going to change. And I think you would see it if you sat down and interviewed anybody at our board, anybody in our membership.

The way we are doing things is changing, but we still need to be recruiting. Folks in stem, we need our universities sending the best and the brightest into civil engineering. And we need to continue to make [00:55:00] sure that when you look across the delivery method from design bid build to any number of alternative delivery methods, that the engineer is protected in that environment and not commoditized.

And I do think we're gonna have to be really attentive to that in the future.

Scott Heidner: Yeah. You mentioned the qualifications based selection part of that. I said earlier in the podcast that 25 years ago when I took this job, I was given a very stern lecture that QBS was the most important thing I had to do.

And I mentioned that someday. I'll tell my successor that as well. That is true, but. What we are saying about QBS will not be the same. Mm-hmm. Because 25 years ago, everything was designed bid build. Yeah. And it was as simple as, you don't ask for price in the initial design solicitation. That's it. Now there are a hundred reasons why, but that was the message.

Mm-hmm. And it's not that it, I [00:56:00] mean it's still that. Yeah. But it is not just that anymore as technology and procurement changes for sure. Yeah. I think that's a very important point.

Lightning Round and Farewell
---

Scott Heidner: Well, let me close down with some fun questions. Actually. Let me open the floor before I do anything else. And there doesn't have to be, but is there anything else in general on your mind you want to share before I ping you with some personal lightning round questions?

Brian Armstrong: No. Just, I mean, it's been a honor and great privilege to get to serve as president for six months now or so. Really enjoyed every minute of it. Including the years leading up, working with Agnes and the rest of our boards in the past. But really rewarding and, and really enjoy it.

Agnes Otto: Ditto.

I I, it's great to sit here at this table and call you both friend and I, you know, at the end of the day, you know how they always say it's, it's not what people say, it's how they make you feel. And around that boardroom [00:57:00] in this room at ACEC events we, I really think I've certainly been made to, to feel welcome.

And, and I think that's a hallmark of, of what we do. So cheers to that. Yeah. And yeah,

Scott Heidner: so I have one final observation before I get to the lightning round. Questions two. We started several years ago. We now, once a year, we have a past president's dinner. It's a way for the organization to say thank you.

To all the folks that have put so much into this organization, just as you folks are doing right now, and each of you in the last year has had your chance to attend your first one of those. And I know the answer to the question, but I'll ask it anyway. Do you not sitting in that room looking around at the people that you already know and then meeting the ones that you don't and letting their, seeing their characters revealed, do you not feel like it is an incredible honor [00:58:00] to hold this position just based on who held it before you did so?

Brian Armstrong: So next year will be my first one. So Agnes one's all yours.

Scott Heidner: Did you? Oh gosh, that's right. You didn't, what am I thinking? That was silly. Yeah, of course. Only Agnes has been, well, Agnes, what do you think?

Agnes Otto: Well, you know, I look around that table and, and I enjoyed the banter in the email exchanges as much as anything.

So I was looking forward to meeting these dudes. But I just point to somebody like Mike Hess.

Scott Heidner: Yeah.

Agnes Otto: I had the luxury of working at the same firm with him for a while. It is humbling when you look around the table and not only are you looking at some really smart business leaders, but you're looking at folks who cared enough to give back every last one of 'em.

And that is really special.

Scott Heidner: I will stand by this, you would be hard pressed to find a group. There's usually 20, 25 of them there. You would be hard pressed to find a group of 20 to 25 humans [00:59:00] anywhere. That are just better quality human beings and leaders than what we have in that room.

Yeah, it is awesome.

Agnes Otto: It's a good crew.

Scott Heidner: Yeah, it is. Okay, well let's wrap up. And I don't even have anything prepared. These are always just off the cuff Mr. President, what's the latest, best thing you've read or audio read either way? Book, magazine, story, you name it, comic, whatever. What's the last great thing you read?

Brian Armstrong: Alright, so I, I do audio books. And let's see. So really got into Stephen King recently and as a kind of a. Eighties throwback. They were remaking the Running Man movie coming out. So I listened to the Running Man Stephen King version before I saw the new movie. And I didn't really remember all the Honorable Schwartzenegger version details.

So yeah, really cool to to hear [01:00:00] the, the actual Stephen King book and, and had had a him talking about it some and what that means today. And yeah, then, then seeing the movie after that was inter interesting to compare the two.

Scott Heidner: That's awesome. Well, as a child of the eighties, I approved this message.

That's awesome. Agnes, what is the best season of the year?

Agnes Otto: Oh my goodness. I love early spring. Not all of spring, specifically, early spring. Always have now it might have something might be like reinforced after hour, you know, below zero figures this last week. But there is just something about a restart every year.

There's a paint a, a famous painter, Andrew Wyeth. And he, his paintings all look very wintry to me. They're all browns and grays and I've just never been. He's a very talented artist. But I, I like color greens, flowers. It's always my chance to get my hands dirty in the [01:01:00] garden and absolutely spring all the way.

Scott Heidner: Yeah. Alright, one final question for each of you. It's business related, but I think personal too. Brian, you can only pick one thing. What's the most important thing that goes into driving a firm culture?

Brian Armstrong: Well, if I have to pick one thing with my company, it's employee ownership. We are 100% employee owned. That mindset throughout the company helps keep people involved and interested and all working towards the same goal.

Scott Heidner: Very good. And final question, Agnes. When you think of the wonderful leaders and mentors you've had, what is the one trait that you think showed up in them most consistently that made their mentorship so valuable to you and that you probably now try to manifest on to the younger folks that you have an opportunity to lead?

Agnes Otto: Yeah. [01:02:00] It's that, it's that combination of committing time and being willing to challenge someone. I think of times in my path when, you've needed someone to sort of be gentle and say it's gonna be okay. But then at the flip side, you need that mentor and friend who's willing to just give you a kick in the seat of the pants if that's what you need.

And if I think about the people who have helped me along the way, it's you know, you can still be a good gentle leader and give somebody that boot when they need it. So that actually is what I try to model.

Scott Heidner: Well, that is awesome. Well, to the both of you a huge thank you. For being on the podcast today, but a bigger thank you for saying yes when ACEC asked if you would commit so much to the positions you've taken in the [01:03:00] organization.

And appreciate the chance to spend time with both of you. It was great to have you here.

Agnes Otto: Thanks Scott. Thanks Brian.

Brian Armstrong: Appreciate it. Thanks.

Scott Heidner: Absolutely. And thank you to Bartlet West for hosting us today for this event. And listeners, we'll catch you on the next episode of the QBS Express. [01:04:00]