The QBS Express

Ep26_LetkowskiMcGown
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Scott Heidner: [00:00:00] Welcome listeners to the QBS Express, the ACEC Kansas podcast. I am your host, Scott Heidner, and it is my pleasure today to this is the second annual one of these we have done where we have our current past president and president come on the show to do a little download of what's going on with ACEC and what's coming up and maybe learn a little bit more about the two of them.

On a personal level as well. So we have past president, Brett Letkowski with Transystems and current president, Cameron McGowan with HNTB. Gentlemen, thanks for being here. Thanks for having us. It should be fun.

Brett Letkowski: Yeah, looking forward to it. Again.

Scott Heidner: Mr. Letkowski did it last year and was glutton enough to come back.

God bless you. Well, let's [00:01:00] look backwards before we look forwards. And by backwards, I really mean Calendar year 2023, for the most part pretty good year for ACEC and the industry and a lot of factors, including legislative session, which you guys were had a big part with your hand on the rudder there.

Do you guys want to talk about some of the successes of 2023?

Brett Letkowski: Yeah, I'll start out. Had a couple of really nice things in water infrastructure fully funded for the first time. Ever, that I can remember but even above that, they even increased some of the funding for water which is really good.

And then on the vertical side, they increased the on call limits which was really needed and got that passed last year as well. Mm hmm.

Scott Heidner: Also some additional funding on the vertical side too to the Regents and some others in addition to construction, they've actually started to fund a lot more on the demolition side [00:02:00] too as universities modernize and maybe you might say right size.

One more comment about water and then Cameron will come to you, but for listeners, if you don't already know this, it's been, the last two or three years have been really heartening when it comes to water, not only because they are finally, well I say finally, not only are they funding it at full levels and beyond, but it just seems to be genuinely a priority for both parties.

I think there's a lot of recognition that the Ogallala Aquifer situation just has to be addressed and it's not a partisan issue. And it's been really heartening, really awesome to see the investment they've made in water. But Cameron, anything else you want to talk about?

Cameron McGown: Sure. So, on the transportation side, you know, this was year three, I think, of the Ike program and either the second or third year where there were no Extraordinary transfers from the State Highway Fund, which is a big, a big deal if for those of us [00:03:00] that maybe lived through all the years leading up to that.

That's a pretty significant change. So, very happy to see that. It's been a big difference maker for communities in the state and the state network itself and, and certainly for a lot of our members that, that work in that, in that area. You know, also, and, Maybe the beginnings of the conversation about, you know, in the long term, how, how does, how is transportation funded down the line as things like the fuel tax and those sorts of things start to become a less robust source of funding, you know, starting to take the, the initial steps on what does that look like long term as you know, I think KDOT's been working with several of their peer states in the, in the region and across the country to kind of enter into that conversation.

That'll be something that play likely plays out over a long period of time. But certainly beginning that. And I think that's an important step as we kind of look down into the future here.

Scott Heidner: And it's one of the good things about 2023 is not what did [00:04:00] happen is so much what didn't happen. We had You know, just globally, a lack of bad legislation passed not for a lack of trying by some folks, but I think what, again, what did not take place was almost as impactful as what did.

You know, you've got all these provisions out there that we see pop up Over and over again. We'll talk more as we look ahead at legislation about some of those, but, but they are always present. Well, let me ask you this talk to listeners about the year behind us in terms of partnerships and all maybe.

Q this up a little bit and turn it over to you all, but partnerships, you know, for ACC come in many forms. We've got several, you know, formalized structure partnering committees with appointees and terms, etc. And then we have a lot of informal partnering opportunities we take advantage of and then a lot of Oh, [00:05:00] entities that we partner with in various ways that are, you know, not a full formal partnering committee, but a lot of mutual value that goes both ways.

Where do you guys want to start? Go

Brett Letkowski: ahead. Yeah, I'll start on the formal. We've got the vertical side first. We call it the alphabet soup for those from the behind the scenes. There's so many different organizations and that is not my world.

Scott Heidner: O F P M. Kansas Board of Regents, Architects, Fire Marshal, ACEC. It is an alphabet soup.

That

Brett Letkowski: is exactly. We also have formal meetings with the Corps of Engineers. We've got a group that meets with them on a semi regular basis. They don't meet as often as some of our other organizations. And then with KDOT, we've got the KDOT Structures Group that we have members that attend that. We have the KDOT Roadway Group.

And then we have the KDOT Liaison [00:06:00] Committee, and then a sub to that is the KDOT Partnering Conference that we team up with KDOT, which is every October, as everybody

Scott Heidner: knows. Yeah. Well, you know, one thing before we move on from KDOT, we talked about legislative success in 2023, but there was another Pretty darn important change, at least to our firms that do work in it.

We are very fortunate to have KDOT partners that are well, they view it as a partnership. You know, they don't view it as a zero sum game. And that allows us to have ongoing conversations with them about contracts and liability and the whole nine yards. And last year, Through a lot of hard work there's an attorney named Mark McFarland with Hinkle Law Firm.

I'll give him a hardcore shout out here. He spent hours and hours and hours as our, you know, advocate and expert with KDOT. And they have agreed to change a term in the construction inspection contract, you know, the [00:07:00] way, and if I don't say this right, guys, jump right in, but the way It had been written the folks that our member firm sent out to do inspection may stop work if they see a risk.

And a lot of our folks said, well, in terms of liability, you know, if we may, that means we're probably in trouble if we don't, you know, we need a lot more clarity here. And so we went to KDOT and through a lot of long discussions, we got them to make that change. And, a little bit of tooting our own horn, I suppose, but those are the kind of little things that don't get much press and it doesn't, you know, feel like it makes a huge difference right up until you're the one doing construction inspection on a on a project and something goes wrong.

Anyway. Well, on that same

Brett Letkowski: note, though And I believe this started with Calvin Reed, and you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but in our monthly newsletter, we have the KDOT Corner that Calvin started where he was submitting letters every month, and now Scott King has carried that forward. And there is just some [00:08:00] really valuable information and it really shows that they are, they're, they're partnering with us.

They're letting us know so we can plan in advance, which is really great. Yeah, I

Cameron McGown: think, I think both great examples of just in, in KDOT certainly. Top of the list in terms of organizations that we work with that I think view their interactions with us as a partnership and a key component of them delivering on their mission.

But it's the same with the, all the members of the Alphabet Soup group that you mentioned, Brett, and, KDHE and, and, you know, on down the line. But yeah, both great examples of, of where, you know, I think the partnership is strong. It's, I've been that way for as long as I've been around in this industry.

And, and we certainly don't take that for granted and are very thankful that those organizations take the time out of their doing business to, you know, to partner with us because it's immensely important for our member firms too.

Scott Heidner: Yeah. Do you want to talk either one of you [00:09:00] about it's funny, I say, talk about it, but it's the kind of partnering that really.

You know, we are and need to be more quiet about for it to be effective, but do you want to talk about the less formal and structured conversations that we have in place or at least the fact that they are taking place and what that means? Yeah, I think

Cameron McGown: it's, you know, those less formal, more intimate conversations are where the relationships get built that, you know, eventually you lean upon when it's time to tackle something challenging between, you know, whether that's something with our organization and one of the, you know, entities that we, that we serve or whatever it is.

But I think our leadership of ACEC certainly understands the value in that, like you guys you know, your firm that, that helps us, you know, you've facilitated a lot of those over the years, and, and it's it's, it's where the relationships get formed that really [00:10:00] make a difference and make the partnership effective, both from their perspective, I hope, and certainly from ours.

Scott Heidner: And, you know, I might say for listeners, too Just the takeaway is I think it's important. We let folks know that Those conversations are informal, but they're happening with regular regularity There's there's a great intention there to keep those conversations on a on a certain frequency and those relationships those touch points continue to happen on a You know, appropriate regular

Brett Letkowski: schedule.

Well, I might just, for those who have not had the opportunity to serve on the board, the President has every other month has lunch with the State Transportation Engineer and the Director of Design. And those can be good platforms or just, just a very casual lunch. There's always one board member and Scott that attends that.

And we may set the table for some discussions that we want to have more formally with them, you [00:11:00] know, in the coming month or two or whatever that is. And there's months we don't have anything. And if you have somebody like Jeff Hancock, you're going to talk hunting for the whole hour.

Scott Heidner: Well, that's true. How to train your dogs. Well, what about let's touch briefly. We don't need to spend a whole lot of time on it, but there's a number of other organizations that we partner with. It's less structured, but no less important. Do you want to touch on some of those organizations too, before we move on?

Cameron McGown: Well, I think one of them that's the most unique or is a little bit unique is our partnership with KSPE. For those of you guys that are. Maybe less familiar with the way NSPE and KSPE works there. They have a number of different practice, you know practice You know kind of areas those that are in education or construction or in the public sector and then in in private practice and one thing [00:12:00] that's unique about KSPE and ACEC in Kansas is our organization is essentially the The PEP chair or the, engineers in private practice lead.

So our Our president elect in this case, it's Agnes Otto this year serves as the PEP chair. And so that interaction and that partnership with KSPE is, is very, very close. I think we work really well together with that organization. And, and that's a, that's an arrangement that's a little bit unique for Kansas.

I don't know if that. It exists in any other state. It could,

Scott Heidner: but I'm not aware of it. Yeah. It is. Yeah. And I, I feel like it's okay for me to say it's a pretty brilliant situation because it wasn't me that did it. Somebody, somebody prior to all three of us, somebody had

Cameron McGown: a good idea along the line, but it does help our organizations work together because, you know, we're not.

We're not entirely focused on the same things all the time, but there's a lot of times where we are [00:13:00] focused on a similar issue or have a similar perspective on an issue, so in those instances it works out really well and we can really be most effective when we're Kind of bringing both of those engineering groups together on an issue.

Yeah,

Brett Letkowski: and one that's probably not used nearly as much and has great potential for all of our members is the ACC awards program and that's through the Lehigh Kansas Municipalities and the Kansas Association of Counties. If you're, if you win that award that is presented by typically the president and, and you're invited and on the county side you're in front of a potential 105 clients that you have the best project out there in the state of

Scott Heidner: Kansas.

And to be specific, you know, that award is given at the Kansas Association of Counties annual conference. Right. That's why you're in front of 105 prospective [00:14:00] clients. Yeah. It's pretty, pretty good, pretty cheap PR really. And then the same is true for the lead municipalities and our awards there. Economic Lifelines.

Let's talk for just a second about that. ACEC is a charter member of Economic Lifelines, which is the umbrella group that really advocates, organizes, and educates for transportation infrastructure specifically. ACEC is Blessed to be represented by a couple of our members on that board and as fate would have it, it's actually these two.

It's actually these two.

Cameron McGown: Yeah. Yeah. No, both, I think Brett and I both enjoy the opportunity to be part of that group and you know, it's a, you know, as opposed to being a group that's entirely made up of engineers or consultants, you know, this is a pretty, it's a broader group of chambers and cities and economic development organizations.

Yeah. Just a wide [00:15:00] contractors and industry other industry providers and things like that So, you know, it's a broad coalition of folks that all have an interest in you know seeing Robust and consistent funding for transportation at the state level here. So it's it's been a real pleasure of mine to be able to serve on that board.

And I think that organization is, is very effective at getting the message out there of understanding, you know, helping decision makers understand why. That's such an important part of our state from a quality of life perspective, from an economic development and vitality perspective, and a competitiveness perspective.

So, it's a great organization. I know I've enjoyed being part of it. Economic lifelines for a few years here. And we're very glad to bring Brett on to the board as our kind of newest board member. So he

Scott Heidner: is the newest board member. That's right. Yeah. And it's just pretty cool. We're fortunate, although I hope it's, it's warranted to have two members on the 10 member board.

So the ACEC voice is, is very present. [00:16:00] Well, let's talk for just a minute about. Scholarships. And then I want to move on and visit about some of the meetings over the last year and a couple other things, and we'll, change gears entirely. But scholarships are, I think, an underappreciated part of what we do in terms of the success we have.

Brett Letkowski: Yeah, we don't get nearly enough. Scholarships each year, but what's great about the scholarship is you, you get this, the Kansas you, the Kansas scholarship, but then it gets forwarded to national and for some unknown reason, Kansas punches way above our weight class. And just last year, we, we had one of our scholarship winners won the very largest, it was 12, 500. It was. And she and her mom were flown out to the annual meeting and got to attend the conference and went to dinner with the Kansas ACEC group. Which was great to meet her and her mom. And

Scott Heidner: [00:17:00] so not only won the scholarship here at the state level, which comes with a multi thousand dollar denomination value, but then you get forwarded to the national, went on and won another 12 5 there and an all expenses paid trip to the.

Austin for the fall conference where she got to attend a conference with about 1, 000 prospective employers as she's nearing the end of her college career. So it's a pretty cool deal. And to echo what Brett said it's kind of heartbreaking how few scholarship applications we will get year to year. In spite of the very hard work this is definitely an appropriate time to give a big thank you.

Carla Waters is, has been our scholarship chair for many years, just a. Tireless worker gets very little recognition and has endless passion for it. She is, she is a godsend and works her, you know, rear off on getting the word out to the engineering colleges and [00:18:00] everything else. And yet we still don't seem to have the uptake.

We hope we, we would. So yeah, for listeners out there, consider this the official plug.

Cameron McGown: Yeah, I was going to say, we'd certainly make a plea here for you know, you all that have. Young folks that you know in your personal life or interns that are working for your firms for the summer or whatever.

Encourage them to apply. Cause you know, the odds are in their favor that they'll be considered you know, for one of those scholarships. Just a great opportunity, I think, that we need to, and, and a big thanks to Carla, as you mentioned. I know she works very hard at that and does an outstanding job, so

Scott Heidner: big thanks to her.

Well, let's spend I chewed up more of our time on that first portion than I meant to. Let's touch briefly on in person meetings that take place throughout the state. A lot of our members will know about this, but let's look back on the meetings we had in 2023, all of which, of course, will be replicated in 2024.

Cameron McGown: Yeah, so these, we kind of concentrate these on a monthly basis in the fall, try and do the, you know, kind of travel [00:19:00] around the state to various locations and make sure that we're able to host our board there, you know, in different places around the state as well as invite members that are more local in either Kansas City or Wichita or Manhattan or wherever it is.

Lawrence I think is, is our, other one. It's just a great opportunity, obviously, for folks to get together and network with other folks from within ACEC, but a really great opportunity to showcase projects that folks are involved with or discuss an issue that's of interest to them. I mean, those have a pretty, pretty wide variety of projects.

I feel like that we focused on this last year. Everything from Riverfront Parks to Homeless Camps to, you know, you name it, I kind of ran the gauntlet there. So it was a great fall, I felt like, of membership meetings this last fall.

Scott Heidner: A couple things I'll touch on there, and then Brett might ask you about, beyond the membership meetings, some of the conferences [00:20:00] and stuff that come up on an annual basis.

But a couple notes on the membership lunches. Board always does a nice job of trying to get speakers who come from a broad background of service sectors. So, you know, the hope is whether you're doing HVAC design or roads or, you know, brownfield, you know, mitigation, whatever, when you show up, there's a good chance there's going to be somebody speaking that is relevant to what you do.

The other thing I'll say, and then I'll stop Brett and turn it over to you it is. We build them as opportunities to get feedback from the membership. And that's what we want from them. And I think we, we get it, but we would always love to have more, right? And a great example of that I won't name the agency, but we have a client agency, a partner agency that we had had some, I [00:21:00] say struggles some items we hope to address.

And we spent some time with them here two years ago. And I think as a board, you know, we all largely felt that maybe some modest progress had been made there. I think we felt pretty good about that time we'd put into it. And we had our membership lunch in Wichita this year and somebody asked about progress with that agency.

And I was the one standing at the time and fielded the question and I said I appreciate you bringing that up because you know, we, put some effort into that and it's my perception. It's getting, you know, a little better about half patting myself on the back during this answer. And when I said it.

There's about 15 heads in the room that started shaking vigorously. No, no, no.

Cameron McGown: And usually your instincts are very good, Scott.

Scott Heidner: Not on that one. And I think that was, you guys correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that was the thought most of our board members had is that it was getting a little [00:22:00] bit better.

That's what I understood. Yeah. And I guess the point of the whole story is how. Which wouldn't happen if we didn't have the meetings and if people didn't show up and offer it, because what we did, everybody on the board saw it and everybody on the board wants to react and to help. And so, We immediately said, well, you know, we can't, we knew we can't derail this whole meeting and have a 30 minute conversation about it now, but we asked everybody in the audience if this impacts you and you can stick around for a few minutes afterwards, let's visit.

And we did, and we put together a work group and now they're working with that agency to get through it. So that was a pretty long anecdote, but I hope an important one in the value that it can provide if you will come out and we'll let your board know what you're working on. Well on another in person meeting note, Brett, do you want to talk some about the, some of the larger educational events and conferences?

Yeah,

Brett Letkowski: some of the educational events is the Rural Development Seminar [00:23:00] that's held every year. The Water Quality Conference.

Scott Heidner: And quick confirmation, Rural Development is every two years. Every two years and it's got a variety of stakeholders, KDHE and Department of Ag, KDOT plays a role, Community Development Block Grants, real broad group.

Brett Letkowski: But real good meeting good conference. And then of course the big one is the ACEC KDOT Partnering Conference in October of every year.

Scott Heidner: Yeah, that's a big one. Also partner with KSPE to put on the Water Quality Seminar. each year which is a pretty big event in its own right. Getting a little bit bigger all the time back to what we talked about earlier, water just getting more and more relevant and important all the time.

It seems like. A couple more things before we change gears completely, if you would one of you tackle what we do as an organization on qualifications based selection. And if Brett, maybe you want to tackle that one and Cameron, if you wouldn't mind talking a little bit about the emerging leaders program.[00:24:00]

Brett Letkowski: Right, so everybody listening to this knows that QBS is the hill we're going to die on. That's the most, most important thing. We, we push legislative and with our clients. But we have David Comstock, former KDOT employee on retainer. So, if, if we have a client that sends out a proposal asking for fees, you can anonymously send that to any board member, send it to Scott, and we'll get it to David, and he will reach out to that agency and talk about the pros and cons of not using QBS.

And it's 100 percent anonymous. He's had some success over the years of getting agencies to understand the value and the reason to go to QBS. Hasn't had a hundred percent success, but we are, we're still trying.

Scott Heidner: He calls it missionary work. Save one soul at a time, if you hope. Well, a couple other notes about [00:25:00] David before, and the service before we turn to ELP, I want to reiterate what Brett said to listeners, it is completely.

So if you contact me, if you work for XYZ engineers and you say, Hey, here's a client with a proposal asking for price, we would love for David Comstock and ACEC to reach out to them. We will, when David reaches out to that owner, he will announce himself as representing the consulting engineering.

Industry, and say he's been contacted by the industry to offer some education and support. So, you know, it's never revealed who it's from. I mean, that's the whole purpose, right? So you don't jeopardize your own client relationship and David's offer, you know, it may be, It may end at just a phone call if that's all the client is willing, but a lot of times he then follows up with information that he'll send to [00:26:00] distribute to procurement officers and boards and things like that.

He offers to show up in person, give a presentation to county commissions, you name it. So, it's a great service and it's. Tragically underutilized. I would love to think that's because everybody's using QBS now, but it ain't. So, anyway, moving on to emerging leaders program. Yeah.

Cameron McGown: I mean, emerging, our emerging leaders program, frankly, I think is one of the more meaningful things that we do as an organization.

Kind of a leadership program centered towards kind of folks that are in that mid level part of their career, but are clearly demonstrating the ability and the promise to develop into more senior leaders within their firm, principal level leaders within their firms. And, you know, one of the few leadership programs you'll find that's truly centered on what does it mean to run an engineering business?

So, you know, talking about finance and [00:27:00] marketing and risk, yeah, risk and all the, you know, all those things that go into running a. Professional business like we all are part of and uh, you know, I don't know that you find that type of leadership program really any other place besides Through ACEC and you know, it's a very mature program now.

I don't know what year we're in here in Kansas started

Scott Heidner: in 07 So we're between 15 and 20 years now So

Cameron McGown: I mean, yeah, this has been going on a while and if you look at our Committees now, if you look at our board, if you look at frankly, the senior leaders within most of the firms that do business here in the state of Kansas, you'll find.

ELP grads littered throughout that entire group. So I know for me personally, it was a very impactful thing for me and my career when I was kind of at that age where I was coming through the program. And so, you know, just an eye opening experience, definitely recommend it to anybody that is kind of at that maybe eight to 12, [00:28:00] maybe, you know, that's not a hard range, but you know, somewhere in that range right there.

That, that has an interest. I'd, you know, certainly express that to, to others.

Scott Heidner: And one other thing that you will take away that is, I think, different from most other programs, is 20 young professionals in that class, and you will have 19 folks that you are Pretty close to, you know, close enough that for the rest of your career, if you have a need or an opportunity to pick up the phone and call them, it's not a cold call not by a long shot.

And that's not only 19 other people, that's 19 other firms. Hard to quantify the ROI on that, but it's real. And I think any business leader Intuitively knows, you know, that's a, that's a lot of value. Well, let's change gears. Like I said, I've run us over on the first half of this portion, but talk to listeners about what it's like to be on the board.

And before we start about asking each of you [00:29:00] your career trajectory through ACEC we have to acknowledge Brett is the past president. I'd like you to share with listeners. what you commonly do during board meetings and from whom the tradition is inherited.

Brett Letkowski: So as past president, there's been a precedent set by Mr.

Kenzel Lynn. And so it is my responsibility to get to the meeting early so I get the window seat so I can stare out and look at the beautiful Capitol, feet up in the window. And be on point to make a motion to adjourn so we can

Scott Heidner: get to lunch. Yeah.

Cameron McGown: And I'll just add from my perspective, I've worked with Brett on the board, we've worked together on projects and things like that, and of all the things that I've ever witnessed Brett do, staring out the window at the Capitol is the thing that he excels [00:30:00] at.

Scott Heidner: So

Cameron McGown: he's given Kinzel a run for his money.

Scott Heidner: Well, you have to remember, and Cameron, you'll feel this pressure next year when you wear those shoes. There is you're walking in the footsteps of giants, you know, Kinzel was the master at having his back turned to the board meeting with at least one foot on the windowsill.

And it's become the du jour responsibility of past presidents, but all that aside Brett, why don't we start with you? Give us just briefly your involvement in ACEC and how you got to this point on the board.

Brett Letkowski: I started, I was on the kid at liaison committee. That's a three year term. Great experience, a great opportunity to, to.

Sit face to face across the table with KDOT and their upper level and talk about what's important in our industry. It's given me a great opportunity to meet with a lot of elected officials and understanding the importance of that.[00:31:00] ACEC has always been a big, it's been important to trans systems.

Tom Swinson was a big mentor of mine to push to make sure. So yeah we, and then Peter Strube out of our Charleston, South Carolina office was a former national president. So he always is pushing me to, to get more involved on the national

Scott Heidner: level. So God bless Peter. He is a champion for ACEC.

Yes, Cameron, what about you? What was your bio journey to the board position?

Cameron McGown: Well, I think kind of like Brad, I had the benefit of working with a number of folks that were where ACEC was an important organization to them, Jim Scherzberg, Joe Brand, Mike Hess, you know, these guys that I worked with a lot when I was younger and they just encouraged me to Get involved whenever there was a membership meeting and things like that sort of started that way But then I'd say the big leap was going through the emerging leaders program And that was I would just characterize it as an eye opening kind of experience you know, [00:32:00] there's a lot of aspects of working in private consulting that that really helped me kind of Understand and I would say particularly on the advocacy side and the importance of, you know, things that there's a reason why Scott makes everybody name their state representative and state senator at every membership meeting, you know, and the importance of getting to know those folks at a personal level and everything.

So, you know, I would say that was one piece of it. And then Eventually progressed on served on the KDOT liaison committee for a number of years and on to the board and on into board leadership here. So, but it really kind of, I would say the big, the big leap was actually going through emerging leaders.

Scott Heidner: Very good. Well, let me ask a couple of questions in combination. So, you know, folks, I think know what ACEC does or intends to do on behalf of the industry. That's why they join. But I'd like to focus a little more specifically the relationships that you all form just by being active. [00:33:00] Talk to me about the benefit that comes to your companies.

Not the industry, but your company itself from a parochial perspective. The time you invest here. You know, the relationships and the knowledge that comes from it is that a benefit to your companies? It's,

Brett Letkowski: it's huge. And you're, you're working hand in hand with, with your competitors, but you're working on the same goal.

It's really all about the business of ACEC, which is great. And we all, you know, we're all. Trying to rising tide raises all ships. So we're all looking out for the very best interest of the industry, which is small firm, medium firms, and large firms. And you've all heard me say this many times. I think the best thing about it is everybody checks their logo at the door.

And no, when we step out to run to the restroom, we don't step on our competitors logos. We really don't. We really are looking out for the very best in the industry for everybody. All sizes of firms, all types of firms. That's probably been one of the biggest [00:34:00] highlights being on

Cameron McGown: the board. Yeah, I'd echo that for sure.

I mean, you get to know your biggest competitors, but at a very personal level. It's like, you know, if Brett didn't That phrase of checking your logo at the door is something Brett's pretty good about saying Pretty with a lot of frequency. So if he didn't say it, I was gonna say it but it is true and I think all of our board members really kind of work towards that and understand that that is part of the expectation frankly is You know, we're all competitive.

We all want to do things well for our own individual businesses, but that is a setting where it's time to set that aside and work together for the betterment of the industry, and that's, I think that we really take that to heart, and it's an important characteristic of folks that we're looking for that want to serve on the board, you know, an ability to do that.

I'd say the other, you know, component of that besides just having all the firms kind of working towards the same goal as you said, Brett, I But I mean, even more selfishly than that, it's an opportunity that we've talked about, [00:35:00] you know, there's conversations about teaming on projects, and how best to attack, you know, various issues that we see going on in the industry, and so I think it's just an opportunity there to Really advance your own business through those relationships, and I'd say that's true with the firms that you know are participating there, but then There's the external side of that too of the opportunities that come with being engaged and participating with those external agencies like Some of the things that we've talked about with our formal or informal, you know, partnering opportunities and things like that.

So there's just, it opens a door for your business to, to engage in that more deeply with clients as well as your other other

Scott Heidner: ACEC members. That's a pretty good segue. I was going to ask you also Talk about some of the, I call them one off activities, you know, there are scheduled things, board meetings, membership lunches, partnering conferences, but there's a lot of things that just come up along the way that the board of directors serves as the default group that gets [00:36:00] invited with some pretty cool exposure to some pretty interesting and valuable relationships.

You want to talk about some of that?

Cameron McGown: Well, I mean, one example is you know, as we record this and we're looking out at the Capitol, I mean, there are things that come up during the legislative session that we may have an interest in as an organization, and Scott, you and your group do a very good job of staying on top of those things and bringing it to the board's attention, but not for everything, but for select things that are, you know, extremely important to the organization, we're there.

We're. We're providing testimony, we're speaking to the committees, and those are things where they want to hear from the organization because they know that the organization just represents a large number of businesses in the state of Kansas, and they, frankly, I think that they care about what we have to say on some of these topics.

So I think there's a door that gets opened there that otherwise might not be, so that's just maybe one example. Fairly ad hoc, you know, as they come up [00:37:00] during the legislative session.

Scott Heidner: You know, that's definitely true in that legislative sphere, and, you know, we might put together a meeting with somebody in House or Senate leadership, and again, the board is sort of the de facto invite.

But, you know, there's a whole nother sector of that too, and honestly, the one I was thinking more of, which is, you know, if we have, if ACC National has a PAC check for a member of the Kansas delegation, and we're going to deliver it. It's the Board of Directors that gets invited to that, you know, when the, when our representative from ACC National Executive Committee, you know, comes to town, that's our liaison to ACC National, it's the Board of Directors that gets that invite, you know, there's a lot of those one off things.

That you know, it's board members giving their time and representing the industry, but I think in total and I certainly hope, I think board members are getting as much back from that as they're putting in.

Brett Letkowski: Some of those one offs, [00:38:00] especially coming from National, you're really hearing what National's doing.

That probably a lot of our membership that do not hear aren't some do, you know, I mean, but you got to do your homework to go find that, but having that opportunity to really understand what they were doing with R& D among other things, a couple of years ago, PP& P. So,

Scott Heidner: well, let me ask you guys a couple of other questions and we're going to move on and do a quick look at the year ahead.

What is your favorite thing and or the biggest challenge in your mind about serving on the board? Well yeah, I'll stop there. Give me your brief thoughts on that and then I'll move to the last question.

Brett Letkowski: I think for me, what I've already mentioned, I mean just the camaraderie of the board, how the board works together so well the relationships.

By far, and I honestly haven't, I haven't had a challenge. It's not a, it's not a large time commitment.

Cameron McGown: Yeah, I think I'd certainly echo that. We've spent a lot of time here kind of talking [00:39:00] about the dynamic within the board, which I think is very positive. I think, you know, another. Area where I think that it is Satisfying to be part of the board is just we do have a voice in the conversation about Policy changes that do affect our the industry and affect our firms Collectively and individually and so just being part of an organization that gets to be engaged in that dialogue in a meaningful way and provide meaningful input into the into the process I think is something that is you know, been satisfying for me, is it?

I do think that we actually do some meaningful work here and make a difference in how the partner agencies that we work with fulfill their missions for the communities we all live in as well as improve the business climate for, for our member firms. So that's probably the thing that I've enjoyed the most in addition to just the dynamic within the board.

Yeah. Challenge perspective, it is [00:40:00] not an overwhelming time commitment, but it's more than zero, right, and we're all busy, and so it's something that you have to prioritize, and I think that our, our board members certainly do that but it is, it is something to just be mindful of and, and make sure I think all of our board members prioritize it appropriately and but we do recognize that that takes time away from other

Scott Heidner: things.

I think it's like a lot of boards in the following regard being on, and you guys have both lived this firsthand, being on the board is a commitment. It's not huge, but it takes some time. But being president. That is a commitment that is taking calls at unusual hours and committing a lot more time to it, that kind of thing.

Well, I need to be quick about wrapping this up. Give me your 20 seconds each. What would you say to somebody listening to this that has a reaction of, huh, well, I'm genuinely interested in that. What should they do? And serving on the board.

Brett Letkowski: Well, every month in the newsletter there is [00:41:00] a article where you can click a link to show where you'd be interested in the different, in the different committees that we have.

If you have an interest in any of those please reach out because that's the first place the president's going to go. to look and see who has shown an interest and it may take more than one time to do it. So,

Cameron McGown: yeah, that's what I was going to say is don't be discouraged if it seems like you're submitting your interest and it doesn't immediately turn into an appointment to a committee.

Definitely We are looking for folks that are, you know, consistently interested and express that so don't, don't get discouraged, click on the link, always read, you know, obviously you can reach out to Scott and others to to talk about that or any of the board members, really, if you just want to More individualized perspective about what it's like to, to get more engaged in the organization, but don't keep it to yourself.

Talk about it with others within your firm. Talk about it with folks that are on the board and [00:42:00] submit your interest.

Scott Heidner: And I would, one thing I would add to that, it's one of the things that I just love about the culture of the industry is folks are not. You know, overt self promoters most of the time, but I would say in this regard specifically, absolutely nothing wrong with being your own advocate.

As Cameron said, if you have an interest, let somebody know, pick up the phone and say, hey, how can I help? How can I serve? It's a good way to get in. Well, let's change gears and look at the year ahead. Briefly, and talk about what some of the priorities are, perhaps what some of the challenges are and tis the season, so, specifically some of the legislative items that we'll be keeping an eye on as well.

Who wants to go first?

Cameron McGown: Well, I think, you know, obviously a priority, and we're, as we're recording this, it's kind of Beginning of the legislative session, but maintaining that good solid momentum of, you know, robust and consistent funding for a variety of things, [00:43:00] whether that's water or transportation or whatever it is.

So that's obviously a a priority moving into this year as it is every year. You know, some of the challenges that we may have out there, you know, there's always you know, there's always legislation that gets introduced that is generally, usually well intended, but may have some unintended consequences, and so those are something that we'll just be mindful of and if To the extent that it's needed, you know, engage in that conversation, make sure that the organization's perspective is considered by those policymakers as they wrestle with that.

Brett Letkowski: Yeah, I concur everything with what Cameron said, and Scott and his group do an outstanding job of really tracking all the bills. And I would not want that job of missing out every week. It sounds like a lot of

Scott Heidner: reading. Yeah, it is a lot of reading, that's true. Fortunately,

Brett Letkowski: he does that for us. He lets us know what what could be an issue and what we don't need to worry about or, [00:44:00] hey, this is red

Scott Heidner: flag.

It's a side note here and we'll move on, but you know, everybody has a different passion and a different dread of what you'd like to do. It is a lot, my job and my company's job in representing ACEC, it is a lot of reading as these bills come out, but I will tell you that is just about my favorite part of the job.

I love the policy side of it before you have to go get involved in the politics of it. Love Reading those, you know, proposed bills and trying to identify, you know, what's going to help us, what's going to hurt us, where do we need to be active and I know for a lot of people that would just be soul crushing, but this is why we hired you, Scott.

Well, let's let me ask you one question, Brett, maybe I'll address this one to you. One of the things that we're always focused on is membership. And it's a little more dynamic [00:45:00] these days because of mergers and acquisitions and you know, cuts both ways. Most firms, frankly, are. financially in pretty good health right now.

So they're not running away from organizational membership for cost reasons, but folks now are busy and it's harder to commit. I'd be curious to have you comment on that, what that looks like in the year ahead and. Challenges, opportunities, et cetera.

Brett Letkowski: Yeah, over the last couple years we've really had a concerted effort to try to increase our membership and we have had some success there.

But you're right, everybody's really, really busy and do I have the time to do with that? Do I, am I, am I going to be committed and get my return on investment on, on that membership? So those are the big things. And like you mentioned, a lot of mergers are happening right now, so. Yeah, it's a good time in the industry, for sure.

Scott Heidner: Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. Cameron, do you want to talk about any specifics on the legislative front? You talked about infrastructure [00:46:00] investment, making sure we retain all that, maybe even grow it, but a lot of, a lot of rats and cats out there.

Cameron McGown: Yeah. You know, there's always things that we are you know, looking for in, you know, I think Brett mentioned QBS is our kind of.

Our hill that we will, are willing to go die on and so we're, we look very closely at things that we think are maybe not aligned with QBS very well. So things like you know, Local office requirements is an example that comes up pretty frequently of preferential you know, giving preference to folks that maybe have a physical presence or an office or a headquarters or whatever it is within the state.

And, on the surface, that can seem like it's a good thing and a good thing for the state of Kansas, but what we want to be mindful of is the effect that that has on surrounding states. Other states taking that same sort of action to where it actually ends up being [00:47:00] an overall, having a detrimental effect on firms that may do business in multiple states, or firms that, you know, are interested in doing business in a state where they don't right now, and that ends up becoming a, a hindrance to them.

So that's something that we obviously look out for. Obviously things that have to do with licensure, while that might be, you know, really KSPE might take the lead on that. We're obviously very mindful of any legislation that changes licensure requirements, and I think there's a, like, dam inspections is a thing that's a pretty hot topic across the street right now, so.

It's damn, it's damn hot. So, you know that seems to come up with some frequency so, you know, obviously we get involved with those sorts of things You know other items like buy America provisions that can have an impact on Project delivery and schedules and all those sorts of things, you know, we're pretty mindful of those issues as well, so A [00:48:00] variety of different things, but those are just a maybe a couple of examples where we're particularly interested.

Scott Heidner: I'll give KSBE a little bit of a free plug here. When you mentioned dam inspections to be a little more specific what Cameron's referring to is legislation that would change the level of licensure that is or isn't required as either Doing the work itself, or at least oversight of dam inspections.

And it may sound super specific for those of you not doing dam inspections. You may say, well, that doesn't really float my boat, but it's that kind of blocking and tackling being present at every one of those conversations. Keeping The importance of licensure and protecting the public health, safety, and welfare.

You know, and as Cameron, as you said, KSPE does lead that, but we uh, we support it. We are always in agreement on that issue and it's always present. Well, let me ask you one more question [00:49:00] about what you've learned from your time in service on the ACEC board, both looking behind and ahead. And then I want to close with a few.

Get to know our folks better personal questions, but I'd be curious to get both of your reflections So we are ACC, Kansas. We are a state organization. We are state focused and your Responsibilities as board member is to that state organization But the truth is there is a lot of organic overlap with ACC National.

We are part of a federation where there's a national organization. We have Jeff Hancock is our national director, so he's our liaison to ACC National. But that involvement is much more robust than I think folks would guess until they have a chance to see it. So yeah, give me your, your thoughts on that relationship and what it means and how you've interfaced with it in your time on the board.

Brett Letkowski: So I'll, I'll start when I joined the board, there was an opportunity, and it's [00:50:00] there every year to go to DC and do the orientation. And to see how much and how big ACC Nationals does for our entire industry and our businesses. It just blew me away. And they are, they are fighting all the time for, I mentioned the research and development issue, the PPP issue they're already talking about the next Federal Infrastructure Bill.

I mean, they are all over it. It's, it's really impressive. They do way more than I could even mention here, but it's, it's really great what they do.

Cameron McGown: Yeah. I think when you can see the relationships and influence that they actually do have at the national level, you know, it's very impressive and I think it's impactful, I think they actually are.

They're, they have been successful in seeing meaningful legislation get across the finish line that impacts all of our businesses at the state [00:51:00] level. And then just from a, you know, if you thought Scott had a lot of reading to keep up with what's going on those guys, those guys have it at a whole different level, right?

Of federal legislation that really can impact all of our businesses. Everything from tax to insurance to you know, ESOP. It just runs the gamut of things that they are looking out for at the national level. That does have an impact down the line, down to the states. So, I think it's very impressive when you get to see that.

And like Brett, you know, gotten to Enjoy a couple of opportunities to be in Washington, D. C., get to visit with our federal delegation, and that's very important, I think, too, for them to just have one more tie back to the state of Kansas with an organization like ours that's focused on engineering. It is a

Scott Heidner: different level of reading.

You know, I kind of enjoy reading the new bills that come out here in Kansas, but I do not have a [00:52:00] subscription to the Federal Register and probably won't anytime soon. I'm grateful they're there to tackle that. I'll offer one other comment about National and then we'll close with some more personal questions.

The other thing that they are extremely good at that I think is little known The, The efforts that they put forward in the space with Congress and the Senate and the, you know, what have you are fairly well known, but they work constantly, constantly with the agencies. And you think about it, that's who, you know, we contract with.

That's who our member firms contract with. They are. Incredibly engaged with all those agencies that have an impact on our business. Kind of a underappreciated part of it, I think. Well, with that, gentlemen, let's change gears, but put you on the spot with some personal questions. And I'm going to start with one [00:53:00] that will give you, that I did not warn you about.

Yeah, probably not a good idea since you're my client. But I want to give you a chance to compliment some other people with whom you have served along your time. I'll start with this, when you were a brand new board member, who felt the most like A mentor to you, either because they took time or because they had a lot of wisdom to share.

Who did you find yourself paying extra attention to on the board that you appreciate for that?

Cameron McGown: So I'll, I'll go first on this. So the person that actually asked if I wanted to serve on the board, I believe was Joe Dremel. And I'd worked with Joe in the past over a number of years and. And he was really good about making sure I understood what was expected and helped frame what it was going to be like.

And, you know, so I'd probably, that's where my mind goes first is with Joe and I've always appreciated him, you know, kinda watching out for me, making sure I was [00:54:00] doing what I needed to be doing when I was first on the board, so.

Brett Letkowski: For me, it would probably be Jeff Hancock. Jeff and I have served on the APWA executive board for years, and he was the president when I joined.

Jeff and I have known each other for a long time, and so it was just really easy to go over to Jeff and say, What does this mean to me? Yeah. How's this important?

Scott Heidner: I think those are two, there are no bad choices, but those are certainly two outstanding choices for sure. Well, I appreciate your feedback on that.

All right, let's wrap up learning more about the two of you. Mr. McGowan, we'll start with you. Favorite movies.

Cameron McGown: Favorite movies. Oh man.

Scott Heidner: Well, Two or three or four or five of the all timers. Okay. Well,

Cameron McGown: I'm going to have to go with. Goofy comedies from the 90s, like Dumb and Dumber you know, Tommy Boy, these movies that have no redeeming social [00:55:00] value whatsoever, but you can watch them over and over

Scott Heidner: again.

You heard it here first listeners, your ACEC Kansas president is inspired and motivated by Dumb and Dumber. Hey,

Cameron McGown: I will I bet that movie gets quoted more than any other movie

Scott Heidner: that you can come up with. Absolutely. I think that, Blazing Saddles, maybe Fletch and Vacation. Those are your, that's your Mount Rushmore of quotable movies.

I'd like to see a

Brett Letkowski: remake of Blazing Saddles today.

Scott Heidner: It'd be about, it'd be about eight minutes long after

Cameron McGown: they took it all out. But, you know, actual favorite movie, Forrest Gump's my favorite. Yeah, that's solid. Complete opposite of Dumb and Dumber, I'd say.

Scott Heidner: Yeah, very much so. Well, a slightly different question for you, Brett.

What are you watching right now? What's streaming at the Likowski household? Whether that's a TV program, or a movie, or a sporting event, or whatever. I don't

Brett Letkowski: miss much. I don't miss football games.[00:56:00] I watched all four games this weekend. I'll see, I'll watch both of them next weekend. So football is really big in our house.

Whether it starts on Thursday, well not Thursday night football, but college football as well. During the season. Always got to watch Mamazoo Tigers and we had a great year this year.

Scott Heidner: Yes, you did.

Brett Letkowski: I wish the audience could see Scott's face and we'll leave it at that.

Oh, well,

Scott Heidner: less, lest they assume something even worse than it is. Brett is a Missouri Tiger, and I'm a Kansas Jayhawk, so we have a long standing good natured rivalry about that.

Brett Letkowski: One of the shows my wife and I really enjoy is Lego Builders. Really? Yeah. If you ever watch them, I mean, what they can, what they do is unbelievable.

And they have 12 hours or 8 hours to [00:57:00] build these massive things. It's just always been fun. It's something my son and I did growing up. He just loved Legos and so it's just something we've, we just enjoy that one. It's the, the TV show I'd say we stream. That's pretty cool. Otherwise it's, it's generally sports.

Scott Heidner: We were we were kid friendly. What's this? Not the right term of art. We had Legos at our house too in high demand. And it was pretty awesome until you stepped on them and then it's not. All right, Mr. Letkowski, let's stay with you. As always, this is our hardest question to get any kind of useful answer.

Everybody wants to sidestep it with, oh, you know, a lot of everything. Although our last two guests, we had Greg Schieber and Calvin Reed on. They did a decent job of being straightforward. Favorite music?

Brett Letkowski: So, I do have a lot on my phone. Somewhat, I'm kind of embarrassed that it's from my son when he was younger and I still have it on there but that's okay.

But, bar none, I'm an 80's kid. [00:58:00] Hair band, Motley Crue, absolutely toppin You got ACDC, Aerosmith, that's my go to. That is

Scott Heidner: absolutely outstanding. Absolutely outstanding. Mr. McGowan? Well, I'm a

Cameron McGown: 90s kid more than an 80s kid, probably, so I'm more of a Nirvana, Alice in Chains, Weezer, 311, those guys, so, but, that being said, I still love some Guns N Roses and Motley Crue and, pretty hard to beat, yeah, so, so I'm not too far off from Brett on that, but yeah, maybe a little more 90s slant.

Scott Heidner: So I'm going to tell you guys a story the culmination of which is just how grossly out of touch I am. I too was a child of the eighties. And for pop music, I kind of did a pivot at the end of the eighties. I switched from being, you know, 90 percent pop, 10 percent country to 90 percent [00:59:00] country.

To probably zero percent pop. And so I just, you know, if it's music trivia night for the 70s and 80s, I dare say, you know, I'd be a service to your team and anything beyond that is a zero. We had a gig a while back, and we're always asking people to send up requests. Some guy there, I don't know if he already knew that this was just a joke and he was being funny or if he really wanted it, but he sent up a napkin, which is how most people send up their requests, and it said 3 1 1.

And, You drew a blank on that? Oh yeah, completely! Looked out and, you know, the crowd and I said, Oh, Hey, whoever brought this up? I said, 3, 1, 1. I'm like, is that a group or a song? And it became readily. Apparent, even though the crowd was as old as I was, that most of them knew it was a group. I was about the only one, [01:00:00] and the poor guy that sent it up, I think, thought I was being a complete jackwad to him, you know, making fun of his request, but no.

Who's this musician

Cameron McGown: who's never heard of 311?

Scott Heidner: Yeah, nope, never. To this day, outside of that napkin, I've never heard of 311. I'll send you some links.

Okay. How about this? This wasn't on I didn't give you a heads up about this either. Brett, this is a fun topic. If somebody were to come to your great city of Wichita and you had to give them a couple of dinner recommendations, what would be a couple of places you'd encourage them to go?

Brett Letkowski: Well, if they're wanting really nice 6S. On the west side, it's really good. River City Brewery in Old Town, it's got a great wide menu. And Public in, in Old Town. Yeah. It's uh, kind of a farm fresh great restaurant.

Scott Heidner: That's a, a good spectrum too, you know. 6S is the higher end, you know.[01:01:00]

Take your clients there in the more formal, whatever, and River City's your Outstanding high end bar burger when you don't have time to do something more, etc. Very good. Mr. McGowan, what about you? Yeah,

Cameron McGown: so thanks for going to Brett first on that. But, so yeah. I mean, if I wanted a great steak or something like that, I might go to Stock Hill, just south of the plaza.

Love that place. You know, a little more normal. One of my favorite Mexican restaurants, actually. A nod to Kansas State because it's Coca Bolas in Prairie Fire, that area. It's great Mexican. The original one was in Manhattan. I think the one in Manhattan might not even be there anymore, but there's one, one in Overland Park that is one of our favorites to go to.

And then, you know, honestly, if you're talking for breakfast. McLean's Market is my favorite place to go get coffee and breakfast. So if you're there for breakfast, there's a few different locations [01:02:00] in McLean's, including one that's only like three miles from my house now, which is extremely dangerous. So, but yeah, that's

Scott Heidner: outstanding as well.

Outstanding. Would you believe I have never been to Cocoa Bolo's? What? Yes. Well, I'll

Cameron McGown: send you another link. You can find your way there.

Scott Heidner: Or you can come up and we'll go. Okay. Challenge accepted in both cases. Well, gentlemen I sure do appreciate you guys spending time with us today. Kept you a little longer as usually happens than we had budgeted.

So thanks for your patience and thanks for your willingness to give your time to the organization serving on the board, as well as to being on the podcast today. Thank you very much. Yeah.

Cameron McGown: Thanks for

Scott Heidner: having us. Yeah, that's great. It's a, it's a good tradition. We just started it last year, but I think we're going to keep it.

Well, listeners, thank you all for tuning in and hope you all enjoy this episode with President Cameron McGowan and past president Brett Lekowski. We will catch you next time on [01:03:00] the QBS Express.