The QBS Express

QBS_Ep25_Transportation
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Scott Heidner: [00:00:00] Welcome, listeners, to the QBS Express, the ACEC Kansas podcast. I'm your host, Scott Heidner, and I am thrilled today to be joined by the Kansas Secretary of Transportation and Director of the Kansas Turnpike Authority, Calvin Reed, and the Deputy Secretary and State Transportation Engineer for the state of Kansas, Greg Shieber.

Gentlemen, thank you for making time to join us on the show.

Calvin Reed: Well, thanks, Scott, for having us. Appreciate it.

Scott Heidner: Absolutely. And we will start off by giving both of you a chance to tell us a little more about yourselves and your background. I think a lot of our listeners have probably worked with you guys for a long time and probably know pieces of this.

But tell us right from the beginning where you grew up and what a family life was like when you were young and your journey in engineering and college and the whole nine [00:01:00] yards, who wants to go first? I'll let

Calvin Reed: Greg go first.

Greg Shieber: Oh, well, thank you, Secretary. So, I grew up in Stilwell, Kansas, which is kind of the unincorporated southern part of Johnson County.

When I grew up, we were surrounded by farmland all around us. And so it is very interesting to go back now and see all the development. And as my wife likes to tease me and my parents all the mansions that have built up around where we live now. I had three siblings. I was the youngest by far, so my brothers are 13 and 12 years older, and my sister is 8 years older than me.

And so I like to attribute a lot of probably my personality, if you know me, I am very laid back and easygoing to probably how I dealt with having older siblings always telling me what to do, right? So you, you kind of learn to pick your battles and, and kind of act like you're listening at least and taking their input and then and then making your decision on where to go with it.

Um, But so my dad was a electrical [00:02:00] engineer and then both my brothers went to the University of Kansas and ended up in civil engineering. My oldest brother started out as an architecture student. But so, growing up with the dad as an engineer and then my brothers, you know, as I progressed through high school math came easy to me.

And so engineering was always a possibility. I wasn't sold on that that's what I wanted to do, but really didn't. Know for sure what I wanted to pursue in school and so decided to do civil engineering. So followed both my brothers and went to the University of Kansas in civil engineering, which was interesting.

So again, they were 13 and 12 years older, but they did have a lot of the similar professors that I had initially at starting at KU. And so, there were some big shoes to fill when every professor already knows something about you, or at least about your brothers, and maybe have expectations of how you are.

Scott Heidner: Can I interrupt you before you go further? I want to, hopefully you'll share the rest of your professional journey after college. But before I forget, your dad was an [00:03:00] electrical engineer. What did he do, and I guess specifically, was he On the consulting side, like an ACEC member or was he with an agency or?

Greg Shieber: Yeah, he was, he was on the consultant side. The main thing they did was boilers and worked with a lot of universities. He was at a very small agency. They were called Lutz, Daly and Brain. And I think in the early eighties, they were probably at their peak, maybe close to a hundred, but. When he retired, I think he worked there basically his whole career.

I think they were down to maybe 10 to 20 people.

Scott Heidner: And your two brothers, they're still in design.

Greg Shieber: Yeah. So my oldest brother Leon works for Black and Veatch. And then actually my brother, Brian tried to talk me out of engineering as he actually has become a Catholic priest. And so he wanted, he wanted me to follow in those footsteps.

As opposed to the engineering footsteps. That is

Scott Heidner: a different journey. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you for the interruption by all means, continue.

Greg Shieber: So yeah, then during school, I actually interned with KDOT between my sophomore and junior year and [00:04:00] junior and senior year, I was in a materials lab for district one and just really enjoyed the environment of KDOT.

At that time, we had a really strong rotation program, a really strong highway program, and, you know, even going through engineering I knew I really liked kind of the geotechnical side, not as much maybe the heavy structures or heavy design side. And so, a good opportunity opened up at what we call the Materials and Research Center where our geotech unit was housed out of at that time within pavement design.

And so that's where I started my career right out of college was coming to work for KDOT in pavement design. And so I have been here 23 years now, so it has worked out really well for me. But for the most part. Worked on the operations side of KDOT at that time, worked up through pavement design, and then got into more specific kind of the materials side as far as our asphalt pavements, our super paved mixes, that type of thing.

And then as we kind of [00:05:00] reorganized, got pulled into our construction and materials group to head up all of the materials side. And then followed up into construction materials bureau chief from, from there. And I'd say what I really enjoyed about it KDOT in general was just the level of responsibility that you got at a really young age.

And so. You know, just being able to work on pavement designs, designing the thickness, designing that pavement and seeing that constructed was really cool. And then transferring that into you know, managing our pavement preservation program at a fairly young age for, you know, two to three hundred million a year programming those projects.

Just really love that opportunity and that really allowed me to kind of travel along the state, work with all of our district engineers, district folk get to learn them, get to really travel Kansas because prior Prior to working at KDOT I thought Western Kansas started at Topeka also. So it was a good to experience Kansas and see all of that.

And so I've been very fortunate of have loved working at KDOT.

Scott Heidner: That's awesome. I, I grew up just [00:06:00] outside Topeka, so I wasn't quite that, you know, off kilter, but I will say growing up, I 100 percent thought Salina qualified as full fledged Western Kansas. I did. Also one more comment and we'll come to, to the secretary here, but at some point I thought about asking you when you said you'd spent all your whole 23 career, your career at KDOT, What has changed the most, but if you started in materials, I can't imagine anything has changed more than the cost of those.

That's mostly a tongue in cheek joke, but, but not really given the last three years of inflation and. Yeah, I bet it would be scary to sit down and look at what they cost 23 years ago versus what, what's being paid today.

Yes, it is amazing.

Well, Mr. Secretary, how about you?

Calvin Reed: So, unlike Greg, I did not grow up in a, in a big urban area.

I grew up in. Almost the exact opposite uh, little town south of Topeka called Melvern actually grew up just outside of Melvern. My [00:07:00] dad was a, was a hog farmer and so we had a, like a real working family farm. I have a, an older sister and a younger brother. And the expectation was that when we got home from school, we were out working, working the hogs with dad and, and yeah, it, it was really a, it was a lot of hard work, but I think it really helped set a path for me going forward and really helped when I got into college and later on things didn't quite seem quite as hard maybe as, as what it was when I was growing up.

But yeah, I grew up down around Melvern and. It was a really small school, so if you know Kansas schools, you know, one A is the smallest school. Melbourne is one of the smallest one A schools out there. Actually, the school's name is Marais des Cygnes Valley, which is named after the river right there. And I grew up in a graduated in a class of, of 25 kids, so not two, two different from a lot of small towns in Kansas.

And you know, because it was a small town there, there wasn't a lot of exposure to things like engineering. What I can recall why I [00:08:00] even got interested in engineering was I remember a A ambassador from K State came to speak to our class before we graduated to talk to us about engineering.

And when, when he was describing that, that seemed like things that I was interested in. So, so at that point I made the decision that I wanted to try to pursue that, whatever that meant. And, and so. Believe it or not, most people may not know this, but I actually started my, my schooling career at, at KU.

I was a huge Jayhawks fan growing up. My mom was a huge Jayhawks fan and, and we would watch Jayhawks basketball at that time, football wasn't worth watching, but we would watch a Jayhawks basketball and just, just. You know, really wanted to go and be part of that experience. So I went into architectural engineering at KU and I was there for two years before I realized that it really wasn't the right thing for me.

And. And at that point I decided to transfer to K State. And I finished my career at K [00:09:00] State in civil engineering. And then and then got my master's degree in civil engineering at K State. And that, while I was at K State and getting my master's degree, I got married to my lovely wife, Gretchen.

And, and the rest is history. I, I did research while I was at K State. On some structural work with KDOT through the K Trans program and really got to be got to be familiar with a lot of the folks at Kdot in the bridge section. And so when it was time for me to, to choose whether or not I wanted to continue my education to get a PhD or, or go out into the real world and, and, and start working you know, I, it, it was really appealing for me to go work with those folks that I had had met at KDOT, and I did really enjoy it. I, I started out in Dick Elliott's squad in 2002. And, and, you know, to Greg's point, you know, one of the things that I've really always enjoyed about KDOT was just the level of responsibility that you have. Really [00:10:00] day one. I got put on some really fun projects. My area of expertise when I was in college was kind of specialized, but it was also something that was, was kind of relevant to, to the agency at that time, which was repair of, of concrete bridges. And so, you know, I got put into, to some projects really early on to help repair some concrete bridges and became very quickly the subject matter expert on it, which, you know, if you, you know, that's, that's just an experience you don't get everywhere. And so I really appreciated that. I think it helped, helped me many times over in my career to, to have that level of confidence put on me very early on. And then I, I took a quick break away from KDOT and went and worked for a consultant.

I worked for Wilson and Company in Lenexa for a couple of years. And then came back to KDOT again, in a bridge role, but I was, at that time, I was the bridge maintenance plans engineer. So like Greg, I got to travel all over the state and, and really see the entire state of Kansas, meet a lot of the folks at KDOT, meet a lot of [00:11:00] contractors, a lot of design consultants to try to, you know, do some innovative things to, to keep our bridges going.

And as, as my career progressed, I became, you know, just. Different levels of responsibility. I really became passionate about bridge management, asset, asset management, you know, really making sure that those that, that we're making the right decisions with, with the bridges at the right time so that we can make them last as long as possible.

And then, and then I worked my way into leadership in the, in the bureau structures in 2016, I, I left KDOT again. I had an opportunity to go work for professional engineering consultants. As their bridge team lead and then ultimately their transportation lead. And that was a, an amazing experience.

I, I've, I learned so much about, about the consulting world. And you know, the business side of, of our industry. I, I would tell almost anybody I think it's, it's a valuable experience. It was a valuable experience for me to go work for a consultant. I think [00:12:00] every KDOT employee should have that opportunity to, to understand how a consultant thinks about projects, what a consultant does. Conversely, I think consultants should probably at some point consider you know, what it takes to make the government decisions, right. To be the owner. I think that crossover is just so valuable and really helps make you a more well rounded engineer and decision maker as you, as you progress in your career.

When I came back to KDOT in 2000 2019. You know, I came back as the Bureau Chief for Structures and Geotech. Worked my way up to the Division Director for Engineering and Design. And then, you know, last year was appointed by Governor Kelly, obviously to, to be the acting secretary. And then.

Ultimately, the, the, the real secretary and went through confirmation last year. So it's been a bit of a whirlwind since I've been back to the agency four years ago, it's hard to believe that it's only been four years, but there's been a lot going on obviously in that four years and, and just really excited to be [00:13:00] back here at KDOT and, and really what the, what the agency does.

Scott Heidner: Yeah. It from a point of view of, you know, simply. Resourcing arguably no more four year span in history has been more exciting than what we've been seeing the last four years. Yeah. Yeah, no doubt. Let me ask you one question. This will be for the benefit of our we won't say old, our more experienced listeners.

When you first came on, you mentioned the name Dick Elliott, which, you know, is a name I've. Remember hearing growing up who are some of the other again, we won't say old, who are some of the other more senior engineers when you were just a young buck, you know,

Calvin Reed: Yeah, I mean, I've got, I've got a laundry list of mentors that I would say, I, I wouldn't call them seniors, but yeah, mentors you know, Dick Elliott was a, was a tremendous mentor for me.

Just very practical engineer and really just interested in solving the problem. You know, one that a lot of people don't know Steve [00:14:00] Burnett was a squad mate of mine. He's. 25, 25 ish years older than me. But but he was, you know, had made the choice early on his, you know, in his career to stay a more technical route rather than go into management.

And so he was really a, a rock for the. For the bridge group and really mentoring a lot of the, the younger engineers as they came up. And just so happens that he was from the same small town that I was from. So we always had a connection and, and just, he really helped advise me in many, many facets of my life.

Terry Fleck, obviously most people probably know Terry Fleck, just one of those, one of those great ones. And then I'll talk about one that was. It's outside of KDOT that just a huge amount of respect for only got to work with him for about a year, but Mike Berry with PEC man, it just, what an engineer, just a great engineer.

And Mike, if you're listening, kudos to you, man, you had a great career.

Scott Heidner: Well, I tell you, he's probably not on our official distribution list anymore. Now that he's. Teaching and [00:15:00] retired, retired from the consulting side.

Calvin Reed: But he's retired teaching now too. Oh, you're kidding. No, he's full time retired

Scott Heidner: now. Oh gosh.

I'm behind the times. I didn't realize that. Okay. Well, all the same, my hope is that there's probably enough people listening that know Mike, that it'll, it'll find its way to him. That's awesome. Well, let me ask you guys and I don't, we can spend as much time on this as you want to, but. It's not a really a focus here because I think our listeners are going to be so well versed with most things at KDOT, but all the same, I do want to give you guys the floor for at least a minute or two or however long you want to talk about you know, what does KDOT do and maybe, you know, somewhat beyond the obvious things of, you know, designing and paving roads and building bridges.

There's, there's so much more that goes on behind the curtain and I'll offer listeners a good example. Of, of the things that go on that you just don't think about every day. You know, through my role with ACEC, I've been. Partnering with and working [00:16:00] with, you know, KDOT and you folks and other folks for going on 25 years now and yet still you get surprised.

I was in a hearing last year. We were helping push a bill to change the on call limits for vertical design work. And we had reached out to, you know, all the likely partners that we had thought of OFPM and the architects and others. And we thought we had all the stakeholders, you know, contacted and partnered with, and here comes a committee hearing and who walks in, but Greg Shieber from KDOT on a bill having to do with vertical design.

And, and it occurred to me, well, for crying out loud, of course, KDOT's got. Tons of vertical infrastructure that supports their mission. So, not to make it about that, but that's just an example of, there are a lot of things that go on at KDOT that probably people don't think about even ACEC members.

Yeah,

Calvin Reed: I'll start out with this one. You know, my, my background has [00:17:00] really always been engineering and design and. And obviously I was exposed to the operations side throughout my entire career, but, but what has really amazed me is just the breadth of our, our mission. You know, uh, when you talk about things like transit, I, I, I had never had to deal with transit and, and all of the complications and all of the, all the issues with transit.

Shortline Rail you know, you know, we're talking about passenger rail service now, aviation, all of those things are encapsulated within our mission of transportation. And, and so, yeah, it is a challenge. All I can tell you is I'm so thankful that at KDOT, we have some really, really high quality people who know their.

Who know their business well. And so I trust them to make the decisions that, that need to be made. And, and when they need guidance they'll come to Greg, they'll come to me, but, but for the most part, they, it just gets taken care of. It gets done. So I'll tell you about transit. I think the one thing that [00:18:00] surprised me you know, is something that I've been thinking about a lot recently is.

Just the number of people in our state that, that, that aren't able to use our highways or don't use our highways. They don't have cars, they don't have driver's licenses. You know, I, I had some folks in our. In our traffic section, pull some statistics and it was something like 300, 000 Kansans that are of driving age don't have driver's licenses.

Well, that's a, that's a pretty significant part of our population. And so, you know, thinking about. You know, how we need to be able to help those people get around, you know, when they can't get into a car and just go where they want to go. That's, you know, that's really important. I, you know, we, we need to remember that our services to people they are people, they are tax paying citizens, just like.

The taxpaying citizens that are driving cars. So they need to have some, some level of ability to get around to where they need to get around to the grocery stores, doctors, wherever also [00:19:00] had a great tour to OCCKS out in Salina, which is a big transit provider. In north central Kansas. And what a wonderful mission and really supporting, you know, rural transit and helping people get to where they need to get, especially doctors, doctors, appointments, hospitals.

It's just great. I've, I've loved learning that part of the industry cause that, that's just something I wasn't exposed to. And it makes me feel good to know that we are helping to support that mission.

Greg Shieber: Yeah, and where I would probably build on it, I think as I've progressed and taken on different roles within KDOT, you really learn the breadth of support service that you have within KDOT.

One of the first examples was just as I got into construction materials, dealing with specifications, dealing with contractors through claims, just the support that the amount of attorneys that we have on staff, chief counsel fiscal people as you work through an audit, just learning just how important those people play in those roles there as you're interpreting whether we made a proper payment [00:20:00] to a contractor, did we follow spec, why that's important.

And you kind of learn those details and it's just kind of amazing. Just all those parts that have to come together to make sure that we're complying with both state statutes, federal statutes, as we distribute those money and then those funding the neat statistic on the building. So I was talking to Robert Fuller, our chief of maintenance.

So we have close to a thousand buildings, I think around 980. And they range from, you know, Salton Sheds to, to Eisenhower office building or our office building type. Locations, but he said it's more than 3 million square feet of of office space that we have or building space that we have that KDOT manages.

And then just even you know, going on like that, just the equipment fleet that KDOT maintains for our maintenance forces is very impressive. So just some of those things are kind of interesting as you work through them.

Scott Heidner: Yeah, no doubt. You mentioned the other agencies that, you know, you didn't really think of when you think of the design work, you know, fiscal, et cetera, et cetera.

I will tell you [00:21:00] in our partnering with KDOT, when you get away from the leadership and design teams, if somebody else is going to get involved, it's for us, the most common partner is legal. Yeah, you know, it's just no, no end to the roles that those folks play in, in what not only you guys do, but what the ACC members do as well.

Calvin Reed: Yeah. You think about all of the things that we do as an agency and there's so many laws and statutes and regulations that dictate what we can and can't do. We would not. We wouldn't be able to do it without our staff and our Office of Chief Counsel and their expertise.

Scott Heidner: And you know, a lot of times, even if we, you know, have a common understanding with you all or fiscal or whatever, not moving forward until we get through.

That's right. Yeah. Right. Well, before I move on I just have to say, I will share your shock, I'm just flabbergasted. In a state, Kansas, I think is 3. 1 million, give or take, is that right?

Calvin Reed: It's about 10 [00:22:00] percent of the overall population.

Scott Heidner: 300, 000 people of driving age, about 10%, well probably over 10 percent of the total, or excuse me, over 10 percent of the driving age population, doesn't have a license.

That is a large constituency, surprisingly

Calvin Reed: large. And, and I think, you know, talking about trends and looking at the future yeah, I think we see it both Greg and I have, have teenagers right now and, and, you know, I look at my, my children and their friends and there's just. More reluctance to drive, more reluctance to go out and get the license.

Not like when, when I was a teenager, I was happy to go out and get my license so I could go cruising with my buddies. I don't even know if Aimbay cruises anymore. Is that such a thing? Um, But, but yeah, I mean, it's, it, it's a, it is a thing and that's something, you know, obviously. You know, we, a part of our mission, a big part of our mission is, is roads and bridges, [00:23:00] right?

So to get vehicles around but we have to acknowledge that, that going forward, you know, a, a bigger part of our mission is going to have to be other modes of transportation that aren't just roads and bridges. Yeah.

Scott Heidner: And I might I might circle back to that a little later. I think I'm going to ask you guys to offer a few thoughts about what lies ahead.

I'll, I'll second your comment there as well. Thank you. If not for something just short of a cattle prod, we might have a 23 year old that still doesn't have a driver's license. Uh, It was shocking how indifferent he was. Just, you know, take it or leave it. Just amazing. But, you know, we also, the flip side of that coin we have a now adult child who can't drive.

You know, he's got some disabilities. And so he's a user of public transit and You know, it's, it's, the more you learn, the more you appreciate the needs the KDOT and other transportation providers fill in that regard. Well, let me move on and ask you [00:24:00] obviously this gets into a part that I'm passionate about, and that is the interaction with the policymakers and stuff.

Let me ask you a two part question. First, at the state and federal level, and then I'd like to turn it around and talk about the local level. But, share with listeners the partnerships and the opportunities and the responsibilities that you all have with policy makers here at the state level, and then also your role in liaising with both the federal delegation and federal agencies.

Calvin Reed: Yeah, well, I'll start this one. And I'll, I'm just gonna come out and say that prior to, prior to about a year and a half ago, I had almost no exposure to, to the policy makers in the Capitol. You know, my predecessor and one of my, my biggest mentors Julie Lorenz, she she really started getting me more involved in that about a year and a half ago.

I think, I think maybe she knew something that I didn't know at the time. So, but what I'd say is we have a [00:25:00] strong partnership with, with our legislature and, and obviously I have grown to acknowledge that and accept that and, and really have I have found some, some folks in, in the legislature and really a broad group of folks that are very supportive of transportation.

They understand, you know, I think through through, you know, prior disinvestment in transportation, they saw, they saw what happens to the overall state economy and how transportation helps support a state economy. I think. I think there is a growing or a strong group of people that understand how important a well functioning transportation system really serves their communities, their districts, and the overall state of Kansas.

So, that has been great. I've really enjoyed getting to know, especially those folks on the transportation committees. Just, you know, really really good advocates for transportation and really open to conversations with, with the DOT about, you know, what issues we're having, how, how they can [00:26:00] be partners, strong partners in helping solve some of those issues.

On a federal level, you know, I would say I've had. You know, some interaction with our, with our federal delegates. The biggest thing for me with our federal delegates is there's so much federal money out there right now. And, and they do have a voice when, when decisions are being made about that federal money.

So it's really important for me to make sure that they understand what our agency's priorities are. So that when they see something coming, coming across the table, they see that, that, that is a KDOT priority. That is something that we have said will help the overall mission, the developing the transportation system in Kansas and, and really will help them in making those decisions that they need to make.

So, you know, that's a partnership that I'm looking to continue to grow. I'm going out, out there again in about a month to meet with our federal delegation. Met with them a few months ago, really good, really good [00:27:00] conversations with each of them, and I could sense that they were, they were wanting to be helpful.

Scott Heidner: Yeah, we are. I will say a couple of things for listeners, you know, at an even more fundamental level than that. One of the responsibilities that KDOT has that I've. Witnessed my whole career is every year the second the transportation committee chairs want you to come in and do, you know, a download and a bit of an update, you know, what's going on since the last year and almost every year for some of those folks, they're hearing it for the first time.

And so Kdot really is responsible for getting a lot of those folks their first true understanding of state transportation infrastructure and how it works. Yeah.

Calvin Reed: Yeah. And something that I didn't appreciate really until I went last year and started providing those updates is that, you know, KDOT, although we are an agency as part of the overall cabinet, our funding is a little different than everybody else's.

And so it takes a little bit of, takes a little bit of education to get people to understand how our funding works. [00:28:00] It is so true.

Scott Heidner: Yeah. It is so, so true. We spend and full disclosure We're a little bit wearing two hats here. We also represent Economic Lifelines, another association very invested in transportation infrastructure.

And Secretary, you and your folks are kind enough to help us with a freshman orientation dinner. We put together an event. To train those folks but where I was going with that is we, between the two organizations, we are involved a lot in what you just said, the different ways that transportation is funded that people don't think about and even bring legislation without being aware of, you know, the big one, the sales tax on food conversation that's taken place over the last two or three years.

Well, You know, wherever a person is on that as a public policy question, any change impacts highway funding because it's part of the, part of the funding source. So yeah, it is a, is a constant education

Calvin Reed: opportunity. And this is my time to give you [00:29:00] and all of your organizations, all the folks listening out there credit, you know, it's really voices other than CADA.

Obviously we go and we, we provide education, but oftentimes it is the voices outside of the agencies. That can have a real impact on, on the legislators. So, you know, thank you to ACEC Economic Lifelines for continuing that education and, and really being there to help us validate the, you know, what we're saying, validate the mission that, that we have as an agency.

Scott Heidner: Well, very, very kind of you to say, and I'm glad to have the opportunity to play the role. Greg, anything you want to add on the state and national side before I change gears?

Greg Shieber: No, I would just maybe touch on, I think, you know, Secretary Reid did a really good job of overall, I think, what we really stress too is just how important it is for all of KDOT employees, you know, we have employees all across the state, so in everybody's constituent area, we have employees there, and so just you know, it shows when they take pride in their work and when they're [00:30:00] responsive, that just builds that kind of momentum.

Ground level respect between them and the legislator as they're working with their constituents that they know they can go to KDOT with problems and that will respond to them. And so really we just try to take that to that next level is to make sure they know that to come to KDOT with Questions with problems and, you know, building that respect, trust that way when we come back and say, well, this may not be the decision you want to hear, but here's why we're, we're moving forward with this, they can understand that and go back to that constituent.

And that just really starts at that ground level and makes it really easy for us as we're working with them to just build that respect level and trust level with

Scott Heidner: them. That's a message we try actively to share with our ACEC members as well. You know, those relationships at the ground level make extraordinary differences.

Well, you want to add something else? Well, I was just

Calvin Reed: going to add on a, you know, I know part of your question was about kind of the, The legislative side, but obviously there are agencies that we partner with strongly. And [00:31:00] I, I'm so thankful that we have a strong relationship with, with really all the U. S.

DOT agencies that, that interact with us. So, you know, it's more than just the Federal Highway Administration. We also deal with. Federal Rail Administration, and the Federal Aviation Administration, and so, you know, there's a whole breadth of U. S. DOT agencies that different parts of our agency interact with, and we have a very strong partnership with all of them, and, you know, the name of the game is really making sure that Those partnerships stay strong because we're working in tandem with them.

You know, a lot of times, you know, they have delegated some authority to us and we need to make sure that they continue to trust us so that we can continue to have that authority. And so, just very thankful for those relationships out there too.

Scott Heidner: Yeah.

I'll offer another complimentary word here too, before we move on to locals.

We mentioned what a fun time the last four years to be in the infrastructure world because when you've got funding, you know It's you can do a lot [00:32:00] more things for the for the communities and the citizens But I think also something to be thankful for over the last several years in the public policy arena We have absolutely hit the motherlode in terms of the leadership of those committees.

And anytime you start to say thanks, you stumble into the sin of omission. Whoever you, so I'll just limit it maybe to the chairs themselves, but Senator Peterson and former Representative Prail and Representative Francis now that have sat in those chairs. Gosh, they are. They're just the best.

They're so invested.

Calvin Reed: No, they are. And, you know, they are very much about, you know, help, trying to help the agency to, to deliver. And I have nothing, nothing negative to say about, about any of them. They've been great partners. I meet with them frequently and just, they, they are awesome.

Scott Heidner: And we've, you know, I've had the chance to work with lots of transportation committee chairs over the years and we've, we've never [00:33:00] had a bad one, but I mean, these, these folks, it is a, it is a blessing of the highest order.

Yep. To, to get to work with them. Well, let's change, go instead of to the larger constituencies at the state and federal level, let's talk about local units and government, obviously a huge part of what you do. You have a local projects, you know, bureau. Yeah. Just to, to work with that. Talk to us about those partnerships and what that means to C out and what you provide.

Greg Shieber: Yes. I'll start with that one. So, you know, very similar to what we've just been discussing there is it's just a huge, avenue there to where we can build relationships as we advocate for the Same end goal that we're trying to make sure that we're serving their community needs Whether that's the roads and bridges or like Secretary Reed mentioned transit aviation rail Just active transportation in those areas.

And so it's just really important that we understand what their priorities are as we look at how we distribute our funding and, and work with them to make sure that the, you [00:34:00] know, the end goal is that we have the infrastructure in place to help those communities thrive and, and help those people whether it's get their goods or, or, or send out their services along our infrastructure.

Calvin Reed: Very good. Yeah. And I'll just tack on you know, it's, it's been really good developing the relationships with a lot of the mayors, city councils city engineers, administrators all across the state. And, and same with our counties you know, one thing I'd say is that it's become abundantly clear that, that just the need on our local system.

is greatly outweighs whatever resources we're putting into it right now. And so, you know, strategically, as we think about the future and, and really the importance of our local transportation system, I want to talk very specifically about highways and bridges right now that we have just a tremendously large system that takes a lot of resources to be able to maintain.

And so, so, you know, strategically. Investing in that system. [00:35:00] So, so some of the things that we've been able to do in the last couple of years, like specifically our local bridge improvement program, where we were able to take 45 million of federally apportioned money that was. To go to bridges in Kansas, instead of investing that on the state highway system, investing that on the local system.

Cause you know, Kansas has you know, nearly 25, 000 bridges, but 20, 000 of them are owned by our, mostly by our counties and, and in some parts of our state. I've said this numerous times, some of our states, it's just, there's way more bridges, you know, than, than probably can be supported by the population.

So, you know, there's a county in north central Kansas where, you know, there's, there's literally one bridge for every 10 people in that county. And that's, that's hard to sustain that. And, you know, we have to, we have to be able to come in and help. Those counties out, you know, a lot of time it's through funding but it can also be through, you know, careful planning and helping make good decisions with, [00:36:00] with, with that funding, making sure that we're investing in long term, long term needs.

And so. You know, I've been really happy with what you know, our local projects group has done to help set us up for some of these conversations in the future. One of the biggest things is, is developing a local bridge, a local bridge planning tool, which is really helping, helping counties to understand the cost of their infrastructure, looking at their current funding streams.

I really, is there going to be a gap? Is this, is this sustainable and what are, what are some of the levers that we can pull to help, to help, you know, make it more of a sustainable solution? There's going to have to be some tough conversations. I would just, I'm just going to be blunt and honest about it.

There's going to be some tough conversations going forward about, you know, what, what, how we. Invest in the local system, but it's something that we are going to have to do, you know, you know, I think I said there's 25, 000 bridges. I think we're at like 140, 000 miles of, of [00:37:00] roadway in the state and, and 132, 000 of that is on the local system.

So it's, it's a huge need out there. And, and we really, I, I. It is our job to help support good decision making with our, with our local governments.

Scott Heidner: Another thing that I, you know, I see from my chair, and if we had the time, this could be its entirely own separate podcast, but there is such a need at the local level and there is such A large amount of time and resources and attention given to that by KDOT.

And then add a third component, which you touched on earlier, secretary, which was, it seems like with the feds, there are, you know, there are more and more pots of money, which is great, but they are in newer and different places all the time, all of which leads me to, and again, we could probably do an entire podcast on just this, but the creation of the Kansas infrastructure hub.

Great [00:38:00] resource for local units of government in that, in that very complicated need to understand and access all those fonts. But that's maybe, that's maybe a podcast part two. Sounds good. Another time. Sounds good. Well, let's uh, I have kept you guys an awfully long time already. Let me ask you one more.

KDOT question and then I want to close with what we call our lightning round and some personal questions, but let's look forward and I suspect for some of our ACC listeners, this may be the most important part of the whole conversation. What do you see? I'll leave the whole palette open for you to choose from.

But what do you see ahead for KDOT both in terms of challenges and opportunities and, and perhaps, you know, even changing technologies I will, I won't be any more prescriptive than that and let you guys take the floor.

Calvin Reed: Yeah, well, I'll start. So what I see coming forward for KDI, obviously our biggest priority right now is to, to continue to [00:39:00] deliver the Eisenhower Legacy Transportation Program.

We absolutely have to deliver that. You know, there are several legislated promises within the Ike legislation and, and, and we need to make sure that we, that we meet all of those challenges. And, and so far we have and I have no doubt that we will. Going forward, though, we need to be setting ourselves up for what comes after Ike, and it's hard to believe that we would be having that conversation now.

We just finished up the third year of Ike, but we will need to have that conversation sooner than later, because there are going to be some big policy discussions That will need to be had for after Ike the, the biggest one out there, the one that we get asked about most has to do with how we continue to fund transportation.

And I think that's going to be, it's, it's going to be a challenging conversation. I think most people where you talked about the sales tax sales tax is about 40 percent of our overall revenue stream for the agency. Uh, and, and motor fuels [00:40:00] tax is, is down now, down around 20%. So, so you start thinking about sustainability and how, how we can continue to, to fund these needed improvements even maintenance of our system.

How do you do it as. vehicles become more fuel efficient as electric vehicles take a bigger share of the market, which they will, you know, I think there's a little bit of a hiccup right now, but I, I do think there's been enough investment. It will, it will start catching up again. Eventually, our motor fuels tax revenue will start dropping and then how do we, how do we make up that gap?

And there's, there's lots of ideas out there. There's lots of discussions. We need to start having those discussions now and really have active conversations with our policymakers. In fact, we will have some information to present at, in this legislative session about, about, you know, what we see as, as funding.

You know, further out in time for the, for for the, the agency. And then also what are some potential [00:41:00] options, you know, one that's been talked about road usage charge. But how, how could they potentially fill a gap and what are some of the challenges with, with those kinds of options? But other than that, I would say the biggest challenge that our industry, and that it's not just KDOT I think consultants, I think contractors, Really, overall is just workforce.

Who's, who's going, who's going to be doing the work 10 years from now. or how, how does the work get done 10 years from now? You know, this is the discussion is that. Kansans are going to expect that their roads continue to be maintained in a state of good, good condition. If we don't have as many people to do it, how does it get done?

How do we continue to design? How do we continue to survey? That's, that's a big one that I've talked about. I think I'm, I'm hoping that there's getting to be some traction among, among the industry about just the importance of surveyors and then also just the, the need right now [00:42:00] and the, and the short supply of surveyors in our industry can look at engineering and see a similar trend.

You know, there's, there's just we are going to have to figure out what is the best use of engineers, of surveyors in our industry so that we can continue to deliver to the expectations of the traveling public. And that's going to be the, once again, hard conversations. No

Scott Heidner: doubt. Yeah. Workforce is the unsolvable problem at the moment.

Yep. Yeah. Oh, there's a solution to everything, but it it isn't very apparent today.

Calvin Reed: Yeah.

Greg Shieber: Yeah. And I think really that's, you know, you touched on opportunities. That's, that's really what we have to look at is you know, with that changing workforce, now is the time that we need to look at innovation, changing technologies.

How can we continue to deliver what Kansans expect within their infrastructure with the type of workforce that we see in the future? How can we get. You know, tools, whether it's you know, we've talked about digital delivery from design through construction the usage of drones, how can we [00:43:00] maximize those to be able to let our staff consultant staff contractors really focus on the high risk items that need to be decided at that.

this technology and data to help them maximize their time and efforts. Yeah. The other one I was going to touch on, so you mentioned inflation earlier and our discussion with locals is, you know, that is, that is probably the area that's gotten hit the hardest by inflation. You know, as we kind of leveled out, we probably saw 40 percent inflation through COVID and we've kind of been able to absorb that just with higher than expected sales tax revenue um, with local employees.

The additional federal money but we're still, you know, there's, there's funding everywhere. And we're able to still offer, you know, attractive projects for contractors and consultants, both to go after the locals are in a tough position there where that the value of their project is so small, they may only get a single bidder.

And if they do, it's quite a bit more than they expect. And so I see that as a real challenge as we move forward, how do we [00:44:00] help them leverage their needs to be able to get. Aggressive and, and, and good bids on both their consultant design work, their, their contractor work, that type of thing. And, and, you know, really manage that inflation moving forward.

That kind of touches on also, you know, as we look at our asset value, what it's going to take. To spend preservation to keep our bridges and pavements in good condition looks a lot different than three years ago what that, what that total cost is. And so that'll be a, a large discussion as we get ready for the next program is what is the preservation side and then what is available there for modernization and expansion side of the program.

Scott Heidner: Well, that's good stuff, and I will add one note to it, you know, left unsaid, probably because everybody knows it, but you know, funding is perpetually the changing paradigm of the future as well. We have, all three of us have lived through very difficult periods where little money was allocated, or the money that was allocated was reallocated somewhere [00:45:00] else.

Glad you said it

Calvin Reed: that way. Yes. Yes.

Scott Heidner: Yes. Yes. Yes. Trying to be judicious on how I said it. But we've also been fortunate to live through the last several years where the state's been you know, blessed with fuller coffers and, and the raids on transportation funds have not occurred and we can't expect it to last forever.

We hope it will, but that, that obviously will have. Well, gentlemen, I am so grateful for your time today. We have, we are running up almost close to an hour and I promised Terry, I would try to keep it to an hour or less, and I need to keep that target. So with that, Let me change to and end with something a little more personal.

We call it our lightning round, where we offer a few questions to our guests, just to get your, a flavor for your tastes and your hobbies and your, and your likes and that kind of thing. So, Mr. Shieber, let's start with you favorite [00:46:00] hobby.

Greg Shieber: Well, so as a parent of kids, I don't have time for a lot of hobbies, but I do.

So I, I have coached both my oldest son and youngest son now in soccer. So I really enjoy doing that. But when I do have free time I love reading and I love competition. So playing cards, playing games, those types of things.

Scott Heidner: Oh, cards do tell more.

Greg Shieber: Oh, I, I am always up for any kind of card game, whether it's, it doesn't necessarily have to be poker, but anything from poker to, you know, I loved playing cribbage with my dad.

We'd always play that. So any kind of, any kind of cards, are you a

Calvin Reed: pitch player? I love playing right here. I'm a pitch player, a hearts player. Yep.

Greg Shieber: Yep. Those, the only one I don't really know is bridge. I'd never have grasped that one.

Calvin Reed: Yeah. Now are you 10 point, 10 point pitch? I,

Scott Heidner: I grew up playing 10 point.

It was, it was my first love and, and. Yes, but since then, now we also play five, or I know some families play

Calvin Reed: 13. 13, yeah. My in laws [00:47:00] play 13, it just blows my mind.

Scott Heidner: Yep. If the, the purest in me is 10. Yes. Yeah. I'm with you. That is awesome. I didn't know that about either one of you guys. So, all right. I totally lied.

I'm gonna. Take us longer. And if we go over an hour, Terry, rule, I am so, so sorry. Card playing is the lost art. Yeah. It's just, I think there are too many options for kids now and, and too many options that are free. You know, I think about it when we were growing up and all those that came before us, there obviously weren't that many options and the options you had cost money and cards was always free.

Yeah. Play pitch all night

Calvin Reed: long. Yeah. We played, we played pitch all the time at our house. Yeah. Same.

Scott Heidner: That is awesome. Oh, you're, you're already worthy of steam levels is just climbing to new highs here. That is spectacular. Great answer. And uh, you said you'd like to read, put a pin in that. We'll come back to, to that question as well.

Mr. Secretary, what about you?

Calvin Reed: So like Greg, I've, I've got kids at home. Right now [00:48:00] I've got four teenagers living in my house plus one almost teenager. So I've got five kids. So a lot of my time is really going around to their sporting events or escorting them wherever they need to be escorted.

But when I'm not doing that, my other, my other passion right now is I just love doing DIY housework. And so, I, I've been taking on some projects here in the last couple of years and. And just really enjoy doing that and I found out just recently over, actually over Christmas break that the Roku channel has a, has an endless loop of ask this old house and this old house, which are by far my favorite DIY show.

So if I, if I am not watching the Chiefs eek out wins or losses. Then I'm probably watching this old house.

Scott Heidner: That is awesome. And and a far healthier hobby than most, frankly. That's cool. All right. Well, Mr. Secretary, let's stay with you. And this is [00:49:00] the question. That for whatever reason, we struggle the most to get an answer.

Everybody always says, Oh, I like a little bit of everything. Favorite music. And that can be either genre or artist or whatever. And most people do like a little bit of everything, but we're hoping you'll. Well,

Calvin Reed: I would say anything but rap. That would be my start. And I'm sorry if there are any big rap aficionados out there.

I'm just, I'm not a rap rap lover, but you know. I am a huge fan of the 90s and alternative music scene of the 90s, so Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Stone Temple Pilots. I would definitely, definitely be listening to those. Weezer. Radiohead. Those are two of my other favorites. Outstanding.

Scott Heidner: That is, that is marvelously specific. Well done. And I know we've talked about this before, but share that you share that taste with our KTA head, Mr. Steve Hewitt as well. So, for all those stakeholders out there that, you know, want to know their leadership, [00:50:00] 90s music is where it's at. That's funny.

All right, Mr. Shieber, what about you?

Calvin Reed: I'm

Greg Shieber: similar. I, I like alternative music also. The one difference, so living with the older siblings, we had a record player. And so my, my selection was their selection. So they were huge U2 fans, so I'm a huge U2 fan. And then I loved listening to old country with my dad.

So Johnny Cash was always our, our favorite artist. And actually One of the low points of my life. So my dad and I had a Johnny Cash cassette tape and we went on a road trip with my mom and she got so sick of us singing that tape that she lost it. And then we, we went to Branson. Yeah, exactly. And we went to Branson when Johnny Cash was there and she refused to go to Johnny Cash.

So we did not see it. Yeah. And so in hindsight, that was, that's one of my biggest disappointments of my life. Oh my

Scott Heidner: goodness. That is a, that is a tragedy.

Greg Shieber: She feels bad now, but [00:51:00] at the time she couldn't handle anymore.

Scott Heidner: After listening to you and your dad sing. I walked the line 27 times. You just couldn't face seeing him in person.

Correct. Oh, that is hilarious. And an outstanding choice of music. I might add. Okay. Last two gentlemen Mr. Secretary, favorite movies.

Calvin Reed: Now this is the one where I'm going to say, yeah, just about anything. I yeah, I don't know that I have any particular genre. I would say maybe. One that I watched recently that was kind of fun to go back and watch was The Goonies from like the 1980s.

That was, that was pretty funny. I was watching it with my kids. They, they didn't get all the humor in the movie. But yeah, I like to, I like to go back and watch some of those older, I say older movies, you know, from my generation. Yeah,

Scott Heidner: Goonies is an outstanding choice. Yeah. Mr.

Greg Shieber: Shieber? We actually just watched that recently at our house too.

I'm similar. I'd say my favorite though are [00:52:00] probably kind of science fiction smart ones. I love Nolan's movies like Memento, Inception, Interstellar. Some of those are my

Scott Heidner: favorites. I'll be darned. That's awesome. I like those movies, but sometimes I'm just not smart enough. Sometimes.

Greg Shieber: You do have to watch them twice or

Scott Heidner: three times.

Yeah. All right, last one here, Mr. Shieber, you mentioned earlier that one of your favorite hobbies when you have time is to read any favorite books, any recommendations? Yeah.

Greg Shieber: So I, again, I'm a huge sci fi and fantasy fan. And so my, my favorite author is Brandon Sanderson. So anything by him. Very

Scott Heidner: good.

Mr. Secretary, you get the last call of the show.

Calvin Reed: Yeah, I typically stick with a nonfiction. I, I don't know. I made the transition probably 10 years ago. It was a slow transition. I think Game of Thrones is probably the last. fiction that I, that I read and now my nonfiction goes it's, it's all over the place.

I like to, I, I, I'm going to completely nerd out on you. I, I really like to read those like theoretical physics, like, [00:53:00] how does light work and about Albert Einstein. And I, I, I really love reading those because there are a lot of really smart people out there. And I just. Like to see how they tick. And then I, I also, right now I'm reading one is actually recommended by my teenage daughter.

It's called American Overdose. It's about the opioid crisis of the last 20 years and how it came to be. And it's for those that are out there, a really interesting read. I think a lot of people who had I've been dealing with that for so long. I just can't imagine. And it's, it's opened my eyes up to kind of some of the, some of the issues we have right now and where they might be coming from.

Scott Heidner: So, I'm impressed. I don't know many people that actually read

Calvin Reed: those the other, the other ones. I, and I think I've talked to you about this before. I, I also like to read books. Particularly by Stephen Ambrose, but about World War II my grandfather was an 82nd Airborne paratrooper and I didn't appreciate what that meant when, when he was alive.

And so I've kind of taken to uh, reading those kinds of books so that I can understand [00:54:00] more about what his life would have been like. And yeah, those are really, really good books also. Well,

Scott Heidner: gentlemen a huge, huge round of thanks for making time to share with our ACC Kansas members and listeners today.

It's been wonderful to have you on the show. Yep.

Calvin Reed: Yep. Thank you. Appreciate it. Yep.

Scott Heidner: Thank you everybody. And thanks for all the partnership across the board. You know, it's just a wonderful relationship, both with the two of you and with the team that you've got assembled over there, and I know all of our members and listeners would say the same thing most of our members.

Work in multiple states, not all of them, but a lot of them do. And, you know, for those of us through whatever channel that have experience at participating in, or even seeing or hearing about the relationships that consultants have with DOTs and other states we're awfully fortunate and we're, and we're pretty grateful.

Calvin Reed: Right back at you. We appreciate the relationship with all of our design consultants out there. And you know, obviously we, we've done a lot of work in the first three years of [00:55:00] this program and we've had to rely on each other to get it done. So thank you so much for the partnership. They're very

Scott Heidner: good days ahead.

All right, gentlemen, thank you for being here and listeners. Thank you for joining us. We will catch you on the next edition of the ACEC Kansas podcast.